Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!cbmvax!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!BINGVAXB.BITNET!POSTMASTER From: POSTMASTER@BINGVAXB.BITNET Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Returned Network Mail Message-ID: <8801080333.AA29660@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 8 Jan 88 01:08:00 GMT Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 461 Your mail is being returned to you. Reason for return is: %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user VY9074 at node VAXB Returned mail follows: ------------------------------ Received: From CANADA01(MAILER) by BINGVAXB with Jnet id 7664 for VY9074@BINGVAXB; Thu, 7 Jan 88 20:08 EST Received: by CANADA01 (Mailer X1.24) id 7663; Thu, 07 Jan 88 20:02:55 EDT Date: Thu, 7 Jan 88 09:49:03 PST Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu Sender: INFO-ATARI16 Discussion From: Info-Atari16 Digest Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #9 To: andrew stoffel Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, January 7, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 9 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare... Re: Multi-tasking? A Nightmare... Re: BMS controller package Using a 520ST for video tape titling Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare... Re: Text -> Speech Programs Re: IBM Drives with ST cartridge slot kludge boards TCP/IP for the ATARIs ? Exactly what IS in a reg dev kit? Re: Microsoft Write ... Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Dec 87 17:01:46 GMT From: mike@ames.arpa (Mike Smithwick) Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare... To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <2027@bath63.ux63.bath.ac.uk> pes@ux63.bath.ac.uk (Smee) writes: > > [deleted a bunch of stuff on how "we really don't need multi-tasking" > >I have an image of telling my machine 'make fred', and then letting it get on >with it while I do a bit of word-processing, or whatever. Only to be hit >milliseconds later with an alert box: > > BACKGROUND COMPILATION NEEDS LIBRARY DISK > PLEASE INSERT LIBRARY DISK INTO DRIVE B > >and, a second or two after I do that: > > FOREGROUND PROCESS NEEDS AUTO-SAVE DISK > PLEASE INSERT DISK INTO DRIVE B > This reminds me of a joke. . . A guy goes to a doctor and says "Doc, it hurts when I do this" (he lifts an arm up, or something) So the doctor says, "well then, don't do that". If running marble-madness slows up a compile too much, don't run marble-madness. The moral of the story is, don't ask us do be limited by others "limitations". As opposed to IBM, and now even (Cr)Apple, who are now bending down to the lowest common denominator, who don't want to burden the average user with unnecessary complexity (the original closed-Mac architecture was a manifestation of this philosophy). -- *** mike (powered by M&Ms) smithwick *** "if it wasn't for venitian blinds, it would be curtains for all of us!" [discalimer : nope, I don't work for NASA, I take full blame for my ideas] ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 87 18:40:24 GMT From: rochester!ur-tut!dpvc@louie.udel.edu (Davide P. Cervone) Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A Nightmare... To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <2187@crash.cts.com> haitex@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes: > What about the example I gave of two resident programs cohabitating > and interacting even though written in different Languages? While > you don't NEED to have multi-tasking to do this, it makes an otherwise > complicated job very much easier, and therefore much more likely to be > successfully accomplished. It certainly is attractive to me because > it means I don't have to "share" any of my source with someone whom > I may want to collaborate with. I think Wade is right on target here. Multi-tasking does not have to be seen by the user to be important. On the Amiga, you can't HELP but use multi- tasking, because the operating system is using it all the time. Each disk drive has a separate "Filing System" process running (use MonProc, you'll see them), there is a separate input task running (I believe that Intuition really is an input handler, so technically, it runs as part of the input device task), each CLI window has a console task associated with it, the serial port has a separate task controlling it. Why is this important? Because it makes it so much easier to do things. For example, early on in the Amiga's life, Matt Dillon (I think) distributed a set of asynchronous file routines. These are very useful, and almost trivial to implement under a multi-tasking OS (not to belittle Matt's work - it's quite good). Or how about the Workbench? Contrary to many people's belief, the WB is NOT the operating system. It's just a program. A plain, old, ordinary program, with no special tricks or hooks. An ordinary mortal could write a program that does similar actions. Witness HackBench. I've often thought about writing a WB replacement myself. If you want to talk about disk swapping, try switching between applications on a Macintosh. It has to load the Finder every time. Why do you think theres a "mini-finder" menu option? I keep trying to pull down the "screen" and use the finder which I expect to still be running back there. I've written programs that monitor other programs (MonProc and MonIDCMP), and that run as input handlers (ClickUpFront, HeliosMouse, wKeys), and some stuff that I haven't released. These would be much more difficult without multi-tasking. Code can be made much more modular with multi-tasking, and smaller, too. Unix people should love this, because you can make programs much more like filters, except you have both ends of the pipe running at the same time, passing data via a message port, or even a PIPE: device. Functions don't have to be duplicated from program to program. For instance, if I write a program that graphs a function, I will not have to add a save-to-IFF-file option, because I already have a program that lets me select a portion of a window or screen and save it as an IFF file. That's a normal program - no special desk- accessory hooks, no special requirements about what programs I can use it with, or what ones I HAVE to have running when I use it. Don't get me wrong, desk-accessories are great (I'd never be able to use a Mac without them), but they are an attempt to achieve multi-taksing where it's not built into the system to start with. Admirable! Great stuff! Keep up the good work! But don't complain when someone offers you what you've been trying to achieve all along. > THE POINT IS THIS: As a programmer I find the idea of writing > such a program as being much simpler with multi-tasking facilities > than without them. Exactly! Right on! > My question for you is, what do you have against multi-tasking? I also wonder the same thing. Where's the beef? > Take OUR (all of us who have given testomonials) word for it that > the disk swapping "nightmare" is indeed just a bad dream. As I mentioned before, I'd hate to have to load the Workbench in from disk every time I quit using a program! I'm much happier letting it run in the background until I need it again. One last comment: (finally :-) the times I find multi-tasking the most helpful is when I WASN'T expecting to have to use it. If I'm using a word processor writing a paper, and need to check some results, I can just start up my statistical analysis program to get my answers (and I can keep on writing while it loads in of the floppy). I don't want to have to know ahead of time that I need to start up whatever carousel or special multi-tasking editor I need in order to do this. If I knew ahead of time, I'd have done the statistics before I started the word-processor! Well, I've gone on far too long as it is. Thanks for listening. > Wade. >UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex >ARPA: crash!pnet01!haitex@nosc.mil >INET: haitex@pnet01.CTS.COM Davide P. Cervone dpvc@tut.cc.rochester.edu dpvc@ur-tut.UUCP DPVC@UORDBV.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 87 13:54:07 GMT From: rochester!rocksanne!xrxns!xerox12!toml@rutgers.edu (Tom Love) Subject: Re: BMS controller package To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu re: bugs in bms package - i've been running a bms-based hard disk system since last january. the only bugs i have ever encountered were software bugs. recall that the bms adapter board has a battery-backed clock. it seems that chris rhodin, the guy who runs bms and does the development, made a very small but important error in the clock-setting program (settime.prg, i think - the one that goes in your auto folder) which screwed up on february. actually it was kind of humorous. never affected hard disk use at all. he found the problem feb. 1 1987, and had updated software out in the mail to everyone shortly thereafter. i'm mainly posting this to stop what could be a harmful rumor. i am a very satisfied customer of berkeley microsystems. their product is reasonably priced, in my opinion, and their telephone support is superb (of course, before they had any documentation, it had to be! :-) the bms-100 adapter has evolved somewhat; it is supposedly laid out more attractively on the board, it is pretty well documented, the software has all been rewritten. it's a pretty mature product now. if there were hardware bugs, i would be interested in hearing about them. if not, please don't do bms any disservice by spreading such rumors. one more note: i wrote an article for ST Applications magazine last spring detailing the construction of a bms-based hard disk system for the ST. it covers all the details of a single-HD system, and vaguely addresses the double-HD system too (at that time i only had one HD). it appeared in march 87, i think. at that time i offered to mail out copies, in either electronic or paper form, to anyone who requested one. that offer still stands. note that the electronic form omits the graphics (done on my cad system at work, not on the st), so if you want the whole thing you should buy the magazine or request the paper copy from me. if you want electronic, mail me at the address below; if you want paper, send me a self-addressed stamped envelope to the postal address below. tom love Xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems Leesburg, VA 22075 (703)729-8000 {cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester! rocksanne!xrxns!toml {rocksvax, sunybcs}! rt 2, box 277 sterling, va 22170 tom love xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems leesburg, va 22075 (703)729-8000 {cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester! rocksanne!xrxns!toml {rocksvax, sunybcs}! ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 87 21:46:00 GMT From: ssdevo.dec.com!marks@decwrl.dec.com (Randy Marks DTN 522-2718) Subject: Using a 520ST for video tape titling To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Has anybody used their ST for creating video tape titles? If so, I'd like to hear how you did it. - What software did you use to create the title? - Did you transfer the image directly via video connectors? Or did you simply record the image displayed on the monitor using a camcorder? Randy Marks ....decwrl!ssdevo.dec.com!marks ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 87 22:32:41 GMT From: ihnp4!ihuxy!rnss@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Ron Schreiner) Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare... To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Well this subject line get my vote for the "longest-most-usless" aword of 87. If you are not clever enough to take advantage of multi-tasking then don't use it, and stop telling everyone "who needs it ? " -- Ron Schreiner AT&T Bell Labs ...ihnp4!ihuxy!rnss ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 87 13:33:36 GMT From: ihnp4!mhuxu!cbz@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Craig B. Ziemer) Subject: Re: Text -> Speech Programs To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <3388@nswitgould.OZ>, tony@nswitgould.OZ (Tony McGrath) writes: > > What he is looking for is a Text -> Speech conversion program that Tony: I tried several times to reach you via e-mail, but was unsuccessful (not surprising since the path was 17 machines long). There is a prograam called STSPEECH that will speak a line typed in on the keyboard or speak an already-created text file. Needless to say, it has a very strong "synthesized speech" accent but it really quite understandable. It is a public domain program. Send me e-mail if you want the details. Craig Z. at AT&T mhuxu!cbz ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 87 02:56:36 GMT From: lakesys!rich@csd1.milw.wisc.edu (Rich Dankert) Subject: Re: IBM Drives with ST To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <568@unirot.UUCP> josh@unirot.UUCP (josh cohen) writes: > >lineaterlineaterlineaterlineater > > > Does anyone have the document file on how to hook up an IBM >style drive? Josh; Here is the connections that I made. Has been doen to the Tandons and others without problems. ST pin # IBM Style drive pin # 1 ----------------------- 30 2 ----------------------- 32 3 ----------------------- 3 4 ----------------------- 8 5 -- This is the drive select - hook to #2 (B) on IBM Style 6 -- Drive select also, but ignore this one 7 ----------------------- 3 8 ----------------------- 16 9 ----------------------- 18 10 ----------------------- 20 11 ----------------------- 22 12 ----------------------- 24 13 ----------------------- 26 14 ----------------------- 28 There is also a resistor that will have to be pulled up, to make the drive work correctly. I Think it's R49 on most. It's value is in the range of 100 to three hundred Ohm's. It's usually situated close to the drive select block in the IBM Style drive. A little more info here. On the Atari's drive connector, pins 5 and 6 are the drive select, but be aware that these are switched as you chain the drives through. I usually connect the drive right to the drive A (Atari's) out port. On the IBM Style drives, pins 10 & 12 are the drive selects. Use drive select 0, (pin #10, in the Ibm style) This should help you in making the drive work correctly. One more note here. You will have to obtain (or write your own) program that will tell the ST that you have a 5 1/4 drive connected and to slow the seek rate down. The 5 1/4's cannot and will not work at the default seek rate. Good luck! -rich UUCP: {Ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!rich Discalimer: The words,ideas,and expressions are my own, and not nessasarily always correct, and I make np warranty (expressed or Implied) to the above statement(s) though I do know that it does work for me and other's. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 87 21:29:32 GMT From: pixar!mgr@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Griffin Russell) Subject: cartridge slot kludge boards To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Anyone out there know a company that sells a prototype board for the ST cartridge slot. Any info on physically plugging into the cartridge slot would be appreciated. -- Mike Russell ucbvax!pixar!mgr Don't worry, amnesia is a common side effect of re-incarnation. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1987 From: Frank Elsner - TUBerlin/ZRZ <181%DB0TUZ01.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu> Reply-To: Frank Elsner - TUBerlin/ZRZ <181%DB0TUZ01.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu> To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu Subject: TCP/IP for the ATARIs ? We, Technical University Berlin Computing Center, are urgently looking for a TCP/IP implementation for the ATARIs. If you have any informations, don't hesitate to send it to us :- -Frank ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 87 02:49:51 GMT From: clyde!watmath!watdragon!violet!rfpfeifle@rutgers.edu (Ron Pfeifle) Subject: Exactly what IS in a reg dev kit? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu I've seen alot of flames about the registered developer kits. But I don't even really know what's in them. Would someone out there who knows please enlighten me (us) as what exactly are the contents of a "registered developer's kit"? (Just the facts, ma'am) Ron ------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 87 18:41:15 GMT From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris) Subject: Re: Microsoft Write ... To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <327@lakesys.UUCP>, martin@lakesys.UUCP (Martin Wiedmeyer) writes: > Neil, what's the Mfg's Suggested Retail Price (list price) for MS > Write? $129. -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion ------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 87 17:56:32 GMT From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris) Subject: Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4 To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <250@dalcsug.UUCP>, euloth@dalcsug.UUCP (George Seto) writes: > The adventure was done with the ADVSYS program which is available for the > be or should be usuable on these systems. The kernal of the ADVSYS was > extensively re-worked for this game and has many additional features > that you would not expect from playing around with ADVSYS. OK, where did this come from, how can we get the reworked ADVSYS, and, most important -- are there docs on how to program it? The original ADVSYS is fascinating but ultimately frustrating because the docs don't give you enough information to actually program the durn thing! -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ************************** -------