Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!cbmvax!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!BINGVAXB.BITNET!POSTMASTER From: POSTMASTER@BINGVAXB.BITNET Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Returned Network Mail Message-ID: <8801080343.AA29828@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 8 Jan 88 01:22:00 GMT Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 510 Your mail is being returned to you. Reason for return is: %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user VY9074 at node VAXB Returned mail follows: ------------------------------ Received: From CANADA01(MAILER) by BINGVAXB with Jnet id 7837 for VY9074@BINGVAXB; Thu, 7 Jan 88 20:22 EST Received: by CANADA01 (Mailer X1.24) id 7816; Thu, 07 Jan 88 20:07:49 EDT Date: Thu, 7 Jan 88 10:00:11 PST Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu Sender: INFO-ATARI16 Discussion From: Info-Atari16 Digest Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #10 To: andrew stoffel Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, January 7, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 10 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it! Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG Re: Multiuser BBS Re: TOS bug ? -> hard disk cables Disk Controllers Operating systems for the ST Hard drives for the ST EasyDraw XX.XX WordPerfect Update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Dec 87 18:31:38 GMT From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris) Subject: Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it! To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <105100040@datacube>, ftw@datacube.UUCP writes: >> In one of the atari periodicals it was announced that they fixed the 40 >> folder bug in the Mega St roms. > > If those are the same ROMs that they are selling us developers, then the > answer is NO, the "40 folder bug" still exists, and the magazine article > is incorrect. > > Neil: please jump in here if if the ROM upgrade for the 520/1040 is > different than what is in the Megas. I understand they are the same. You're correct, Farrell. The 40 folder limit still exists in the ROMs. We still recomment FOLDRXXX.PRG as the fix for the problem. Which ST periodical was this? I thought we had most of them trained to call and verify information before printing things like that. -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion ------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 87 18:38:48 GMT From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris) Subject: Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <1505@mind.UUCP>, romero@mind.UUCP (Antonio Romero) writes: > Hmm. Does this suggest upcoming compatibility problems? > Or perhaps the advent of a new operating system altogether? > Could it be... MULTITASKING? Okay guys, warm up the rumor mills... > > -Antonio Romero > romero@psycho.Princeton.EDU *** FLAME ON *** What good does it do to start rumors like this? Do us all a favor, if you need something to talk about, discuss the weather. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to add features to the machine. But, we're not adding this one at the moment. And there are so many rumors getting people jazzed up for nothing... The rumor mill in our community has gone a bit haywire lately. There's enough going on without people making things up. Most ridiculous rumors of 1987 awards: 1. The blitters didn't work, so we're using kludged-up Amiga blitters. 2. The blitters partially work, so we removed 4 of 8 functions from them. Please, folks, give us a break. We're easy enough to talk to if you want to ASK a question. Sometimes it seems that rumors are so much fun that their veracity has no bearing on how they spread. Sometimes they spread AFTER the facts are clarified -- fiction being more fun, I presume. *** FLAME OFF *** Sorry folks, but it's been a rough year. Best to all for 1988! Hope you're having a good holiday season. -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion ------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 87 18:21:16 GMT From: portal!atari!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris) Subject: Re: Multiuser BBS To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <1479@saturn.ucsc.edu>, koreth@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Steven Grimm) writes: > The ST's BIOS is re-entrant. GEMDOS is not. (I have a multiuser BBS > system to prove it...) OK, Steven, where's my copy of the multiuser version? And whatever hardware it takes to make it work. Atari Base is waiting... Maybe I'd better backtrack a moment. Here in Atari, we run a free BBS for users. It's known as Atari Base, and can be reached at 408-745-5308. Here's the rub -- we run 5 lines into 5 separate systems. The line you get through to is simply the first available line. But, if you leave a question on that line, you'd better make darn sure you get back to that line. We're looking for a solution. We need a way for the lines to talk to each other. Solutions that have been discussed, in order of preference, are: 1. Multi-port RS232 box that lets several modems talk to one ST. The advantage is that we'd need one computer instead of 5. The disadvantage is that if the one system goes down, everything dies. We're willing to live with this, because system crashes have been extremely rare in the 2 years since Atari Base opened in its current configuration. 2. Network that lets each line share messages. At one time there was talk of trying a MIDI-based network, but work on this was shelved by QMI due to the inability to resolve conflicting RS232 and MIDI interrupts. Maybe "PromiseLAN" will solve this one. 3. Using a system like Fnet or Fidonet and having lines call each other to pass messages. Not too elegant in my book, and lines are only updated at intervals (probably daily), but we could do this today if we wanted to. The other burning issue is, which software to use? We're currently using the Michtron BBS. Michtron has abandoned its plan to sell a hardware multiport gizmo because the engineers in the UK who were working on one couldn't get it to work. FoReM 2.0 supports Fnet, so if we wanted to go to approach #3 we could do it. But with the number of novice callers we get, I'm a bit leery of using FoReM. Any comments to the contrary, netlanders? NiteLite Systems now has a hardware device to let 4 or 8 modems share an ST. Their BBS program supports this. But... well, I used NiteLite on the 8-bit before we went to the ST on our board. I like NiteLite's message facility, but the program needs improving in the user log (not sorted at all) and the download area. Paul Swanson, NiteLite's author, is working at making improvements, and is very willing to take criticism and act upon it. BB/ST is very powerful, and Steven Grimm is working on the multi-line facility. But we're still waiting on some hardware. QMI is a great little company, but I know they're (almost) as overworked as we are at Atari. So, timetables for this are in doubt. Also, BB/ST's tree-structured message base is not my cup of tea. And then there's BBS Express ST. Keith Ledbetter is doing a nice job on this one. The message base and file areas work well. But there's been no hint from ICD about the prospects for a multi-line function. I'd like to hear of one, because I like the program, which has a nice extra for us -- the script language for it would make development of an online order entry system fairly simple. It would be a boon to users to allow them to order spare parts online. One last thing -- we're committed to running the whole thing on Atari equipment. Partly because of budget (total cost for system hardware out-of-pocket to date has been $0), and mainly because it's a good excuse to push the envelope of what can be done on the system. The makers of BBS programs would love to see us use their program, because it's a great promotion for them. So, I tell them to give me what I need! Maybe some day it will work. Just to not irritate anyone, I'm aware of the PD program STadel, but this one gave new users fits when I tried it at home. And there's CBBS from Oasis, which just came in and hasn't been tried yet. No word on multi-line functions here either. Any helpful advice from netland? -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 87 12:37:13 GMT From: mcvax!nikhefh!t19@uunet.uu.net (Geert J v Oldenborgh) Subject: Re: TOS bug ? -> hard disk cables To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu > (discussion about errors being probable with too long a cable) Just having obtained a SH205 with a 85cm cable (here in Holland it is prohibited by law to use inches) I followed Landon's suggestion in a simplified way: just 2000 times 'cmp aap noot >> mies' with aap, noot identical 64K files. Cmp did not report any errors on this 256M data transfer in spite of various lamps, a monitor etc. being switched in the neighbourhood. And I rather like the longer cable. Geert Jan (t19@nikhefh.hep.nl) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 87 17:20:25 EST From: Ravi Subrahmanyan To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Subject: Disk Controllers This is a forwarded message: please reply to the address specified below. >Subject: Disk Controllers >From: Reno.Wbst@Xerox.COM >Reply-To: Reno.Wbst@Xerox.COM >Message-Id: <871228-104652-1140@Xerox> >Status: R > > >Could someone please send out the address and/or phone numbers for BMS and >ICD? >Thanx > Reno ------------------------------ From: AB084%DK0RRZK0.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1987 02:03:18 CET To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu Subject: Operating systems for the ST A few weeks ago I sent a letter to the net in which I tried to initiate a dicussion about OS's. There was some response to it on the net and a couple of people wrote to me directly. There is one letter which I find interesting enough to forward to the net, because it contains information I have not seen on the net so far. Here it is. (I hope you don't mind, Skip|) >Received: from UCBJADE (BSMTP ) on 12/08/87 09:29:07 GMT-1 (NOS/BE Mailer 2.0 > Mail-to: DK0RRZK0(AB084 ), Format: MAIL >Return-Path: Received: from ucbvax.berkeley.edu > by jade.berkeley.edu (5.54 (CFC 4.22.3)/1.16.17) > id AA23309; Tue, 8 Dec 87 00:15:19 PST >Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.58/1.26) > id AA11959; Tue, 8 Dec 87 00:03:40 PST >Received: by cad.Berkeley.EDU (5.58/1.26) > id AA15187; Mon, 7 Dec 87 23:35:06 PST >Received: Mon, 7 Dec 87 23:23:32 PST by ames.arpa (5.58/1.2) >Received: by beaver.cs.washington.edu (5.52.1/6.10) > id AA15616; Mon, 7 Dec 87 22:01:12 PST >Received: by entropy.ms.washington.edu (5.52.1/6.2) > id AA29903; Mon, 7 Dec 87 22:04:35 PST >Message-Id: <8712080604.AA29903@entropy.ms.washington.edu> >Received: by dataio.Data-IO.COM (smail2.5) > id AA06356; 7 Dec 87 22:04:05 PST (Mon) >Received: by pilchuck.Data-IO.COM (smail2.5) > id AA11304; 7 Dec 87 21:53:51 PST (Mon) >Received: by apcisea.UUCP; Mon, 7 Dec 87 14:16:09 pdt >Date: Mon, 7 Dec 87 14:16:09 pdt >From: ucbcad|ames.UUCP|uw-beaver|uw-entropy|mcgp1|fst@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU >To: uw-entropy|DK0RRZK0 >Subject: Re: OS/9 and other operating systems >In-Reply-To: your article <8712030211.AA03408@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> >Content-Type: text >Content-Length: 2482 > >There is one other (very real) operating system which is available *NOW* >and has been available since Jan 1987. It is called IDRIS (TM). >It is a product of Whitesmiths Ltd, of Westford MA. Those familiar >with "Software Tools" book of Kernighan and Plauger, will be happy to >know that P.J. Plauger is the president and founder of Whitesmiths Ltd. > >IDRIS has been available on many processors including PDP-11, VAXen, >680X0, and 8086. It was first released in 1978 on PDP-11s. IDRIS 2.2 was >ported to the ATARI ST (520, and 1040) in summer 1986, by Computer Tools >International Inc., for which, I am an engineer. The current version is >IDRIS 3.12, with release 3.2 of the C compiler. The IDRIS68K 2.2 was shown >at ATARI booth in Fall COMDEX 1986. The 3.12 release was shown at ATARI >booth in Fall COMDEX 1987. > >More about IDRIS. > >IDRIS is a real time, UNIX(TM) compatible, multi-user, multi-tasking operating >system. Its C compiler (Whitesmiths C 3.2) is fully compatible with the >proposed ANSI C. The system library is fully compatible with latest POSIX(TM) >proposals. Whitesmiths is an active member of both ANSI C, and POSIX standards >committees. IDRIS can, (and in the case of ST and MEGA does), emulated MMU in >software. It can, however, use hardware MMU if it is present. In the case >of the 68K version of IDRIS that would be MC68451. IDRIS68K supports MC68881 >as a coprocessor or a mapped device. > >Currently, many UNIX environment software are being ported to the IDRIS-ST. >Syntactic Corp. is porting Crystalwriter+(TM), Network Research Corp. is >porting FUSION(TM) Network System (including TCP/IP). Oracle SQL is also >being ported. Computer Tools Int'l is porting X-Window system. > >As far as hardware is concerned, Computer Tools Int'l Inc. has working >prototypes of a 4-port I/O Card for ST/MEGA computers. We also have >prototypes of Ethernet/Cheapernet card which is to support FUSION. > >The 4-Port I/O card (4 rs232s, running at up to 19.2 kbps) was shown >at Fall 1987 COMDEX. We also showed a demo version of X-Windows for >the ST/MEGA under IDRIS. This product is called STX-Window(TM) system. > >Tom Love of ST applications has done a review of IDRIS-ST 3.11 with >release 3.1 of the C compiler. It think it was the November 87 issue. > >IDRIS-ST also supports most libvdi, and all LINE A calls (very carefully) > >For more info you can write or call Computer Tools Int'l Inc. >720 S. 333rd, Suite 101 >Federal Way, WA, 98003 >PHONE (206) 838-4990. > >Sincerely, > >Skip Tavakkolian My questions to IDRIS users: - An emulated MMU seems a good idea if there is no hardware. But doesn't that make the OS very slow? - Any experience with porting UNIX software? Does anybody know whether IDRIS is available in Germany? In my first letter I mentioned the OS's RTOS-UH and EUMEL. Several people asked for more information about these. I don't feel too competent... If there is somebody who knows them well and is ready to write an article about them (or one of them), I'd be grateful. If not, I am willing to look up the magazine articles and to extract a short characterization. Michael Eibl Institut f. Theoretische Physik Universitaet zu Koeln D-5000 Koeln West Germany ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 87 21:16:31 GMT From: mnetor!utzoo!yunexus!gen1!chris@uunet.uu.net (Chris Parkinson) Subject: Hard drives for the ST To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu I have noticed a few requests on the net for information regarding hard drives, hard drive kits, and the like for the ST. I have just purchased a "TAMI-HD40" hard drive system from FutureDOS, and am *very* happy with it so far. I own an Atari Mega-2 ST and required a larger disk capacity in order to run GEM, Magic Sac, and OS-9/68000 efficiently. The single drive system I received from FutureDOS is in a long enclosure that is designed to accommodate a second half height drive. Since the system is custom made, I ordered the 44 Mb (formatted) hard disk configuration, for which I paid $1400 Cdn.. Other capacities are available upon request. Also, all of the hard drive systems are fully assembled and tested, so reliability is assured. If you are looking for a high quality/high capacity hard drive system at a reasonable price, then this may be the thing for you. You can reach the folks at FutureDOS by writing them at FutureDOS, 1207-120 Torresdale Ave., North York, Ontario, CANADA, M2R 3N7. Tel. (416) 736-0321 Christopher Parkinson yunexus!gen1!yuplanet!chris BTW-Standard disclaimer...I am in no way affiliated with FutureDOS, I am just another happy customer!!! ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 87 23:43:37 GMT From: mnetor!utgpu!parora@uunet.uu.net (Pavneet Arora) Subject: EasyDraw XX.XX To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu I saw a demonstration of EasyDraw recently, the version # of which I don't know. I have a few peeves about the package which prevent me from purchasing it. Since I do need an object oriented drawing package I wanted to confirm that my objections are legitimate. If they are, and if EasyDraw is listening then please take them as suggestions. 1. Text cannot be rotated. ( FATAL if you want to draw rough graphs ). The closest you can get is something like: R o t a t e. Not too useful if you are considering drawing architectural plans which require sideways printing for a better fit. 2. Exiting will always request if you want to save your file even if you have made no changes since the last save. 3. You have to explicitly select an object and then click again to move it. A single click should suffice the way it does with copying files etc. 4. The default for text should be justify off. I usually use text as labels and can't see why justify should be on. I also forgot most of the time to change justification when entering text so that I had to go and change text attributes - a real nuisance. Some of the features I wish had been adopted from MacDraw: 5. A cubic spline fit (called SMOOTH and UNSMOOTH in MacDraw). A really useful feature when one wants to draw gaussians and sine waves etc. the way I needed to for my thesis. 6. The ability of picking a larger than one page size for the drawing and then having EasyDraw print it out serially page wise. This allows more complex drawings to be mosaiced easily. Has anyone had similar experiences? Pavneet Arora parora@utgpu ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 87 00:26:39 GMT From: mnetor!utgpu!parora@uunet.uu.net (Pavneet Arora) Subject: WordPerfect Update To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Just a note for WP users. The new update is supposed to be out in early January. Since I didn't get any response to my previous posting about the numerous bugs in WP I am not really sure if any WP users actually exist. 8-{) In response to Neil Harris' comment that the support is excellent, I have a few comments of my own: 1. No company, software or otherwise, should be able to release a product that doesn't even come close to working. Bugs are one thing - fatal bugs another. I use the following analogy - If I approached WP and asked them to give me a copy of the software, and then told them that I would pay them in a few months i.e. whenever I could afford it, I would not expect them to hand over the package. And yet, WP has taken money from users and then handed over a useless package without ever notifying any of its users that there are problems. And when a user tracks down the bugs and calls WP, they say they are aware of it and a working version should be out soon. Soon in my case has meant 3 months now, and I still don't have a working version. 2. A company that only includes its UTAH address for technical support, even in packages sold in Canada can hardly be seen as being concerned for all of its users. By the way the (800) number doesn't work from Canada so that you have to call WP on your own expense during the day at full rate. Technical support does exist in Canada from J.B. Marketing in Cornwall. Their phone number is : 1-(800)-267-1731. 3. Part of servicing a product means keeping in touch with the buyers and users and being above board about things( i.e. through bulletins ). I have not seen any indication that WP considers this a priority. This is critical in the present case where there must be bewildered users trying to figure out why a $595 software package doesn't work. I think the larger issue here is the ethics with which high tech companies operate. Personally, I don't feel that WP has thus far exhibited anything that qualifies it for the praise that Neil Harris had to offer. My experience has been in dealing with WP both in Canada and the US for the past three months now. parora@utgpu ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ************************** -------