Xref: utzoo sci.bio:787 soc.men:2399 soc.women:8833 sci.misc:714 Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!ihlpa!krista From: krista@ihlpa.ATT.COM (K.J.Anderson) Newsgroups: sci.bio,soc.men,soc.women,sci.misc Subject: Re: Rape a reproductive advantage? Summary: LONG! Message-ID: <6852@ihlpa.ATT.COM> Date: 15 Jan 88 23:03:28 GMT References: <517@gtx.com> <248@nancy.UUCP> Distribution: na Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois Lines: 100 There really is a line eater bug. There really is a line eater bug. Ok, I really would not use the word "rape" to describe something animals are capable of doing any more than I would say that they are capable of "making love". Humans are so much more influenced by their learned responses, that instinct does not count for much in human social or sexual behavior. Second, I'm sorry to be a poor sport, but I am kind of skeptical of coercive duck mating behavior. Where was this documented? How hard did the female fight? If it were a violent fight resulting in broken feathers, it would hardly be an evolutionary advantage. Also, if the female did not have a male to help raise the nestlings, they probably would not survive. Hence, I would suspect that copulation without the mated bond is a deviant behavior. It seems likely to me that the male that did the act did not inherit his instincts properly, or maybe he lost one or both parents and failed to learn something essential to "proper" social behavior. Now, when it comes to humans, rape is also a deviant behavior. I doubt that the tendency to rape is an inheritable trait, although I have read that many rapists were sexually or physically abused as children. Aggression, however, probably is an inheritable trait, probably related to certain hormone levels. And aggressive tendencies may play a role in the act of rape. Furthermore, aggression does have survival value, which is just a cold fact of nature. However, healthy humans are able to control and direct their behaviors. So, while the tendency to be aggressive is a motivating factor and helps us to be ruthless, struggles for dominance can be clever and well organized. If a less intelligent creature had the strength of aggressive emotions that humans have, it would probably destroy others and itself indiscriminately. Maybe it is because of our self-directed will and intelligence that our species can tolerate such a high level of aggression. Some humans do not have the ability to control their actions; the aggression that they feel is deadly. Someone who has been sexually abused as a child, and is aggressive, and is unable to control his/her behavior could in turn rape others. This would be the classic rape-as-a-violent-act-motivated-by-hatred-of-women. But I don't think that is the only kind of rape that can occur, even though that is what current literature is saying. I don't think all rapes are motivated by hatred of women, nor do I think that rape is always unrelated to sex. I think some men are so selfish that they will not take no for an answer - but they do not take no for an answer in any aspect of their lives, not just sex. I also think some men are so damn stupid that they don't understand that kicking and biting really means no! And some men are so aggressive, that their ability to control their behavior is undermined when they are aroused by anger or desire. I'm not defending rape; all rapists deserve to be arrested and convicted and all need counseling to learn better social skills. Also, *most* men prefer mutually enjoyable sexual relations. There is no way human rape behavior could be an evolutionary advantage, even if it were hereditary. Look at the consequences of rape: 1. female can die of infection due to open wounds resulting from forced entry 2. if female becomes pregnant, she must care for the baby herself 3. female may become so timid as to avoid males and reproduction 4. female may become so hostile, she may try to kill males 5. family of female may try to kill rapist 6. family of female may try to kill female 7. female may be considered too unclean for future mating with someone else 8. spread of diseases See what I mean? It is very destabilizing to society, as it would be for other animals, too. One more thing. Rape should not be confused with coercive sex which goes on all the time. There's a subtle difference which is that the rape victim is fighting it every step of the way whereas the coercive sex victim at some point accepts the treatment she is getting. Coercive sex was the accepted form of reproduction in humans for a long time. Even now, how many women have intercourse with their husbands just because it's faster and easier to submit and get it over with, than to try to explain to the guy that it would be a lot more enjoyable if he could just wait a few more days? There is a fine line between rape and other kinds of coitus such as seduction and coercion. Unfortunately, the only way to define which one it is, is by the behavior of the *victim*. One last note. Whenever discussing survivability of traits, we must remember that the trait does not have to be a perfect solution or even the best solution. It certainly does not have to be a morally righteous solution. It just has to work. Ok, sorry I can't shut up once I get started. I just also wanted to point out that when it comes to humans, we can talk about the survival value or harm of social behaviors whether or not they are inheritable. The mechanics of behavioral characteristics and of biological characteristics are similar; both are measurable by statistical methods and both can be judged in terms of survivability. We can and do control social behavior, but biological control is a whole different discussion! K.J.Anderson -- ihnp4!ihlpa!krista