Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!homxb!mtuxo!mtune!icus!gil
From: gil@icus.UUCP (Gil Kloepfer Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.fortran
Subject: Re: Forced variable declaration
Summary: Sometimes you have to be a bit more...
Message-ID: <258@icus.UUCP>
Date: 8 Feb 88 05:42:28 GMT
References: <445@drilex.UUCP> <50500026@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: gil@icus.UUCP (Gil Kloepfer Jr.)
Organization: Bowne Management Systems, Inc., Mineola, NY
Lines: 98

[Some irrelivant material removed from the following quote to keep followup
 size small]

In article <50500026@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu> mcdonald@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>>>The argument about mispelled variable names is a red
>>>herring that any REAL Fortran scientific programmer would recognize.
>
>>****FLAME ON****
>
>>Well Mr. "real Fortran scientific programmer" (I suppose you don't eat
>>quiche either), what you have just said here is just so much rubbish that any
>>"real" software engineer or serious programmer would recognise.  Perhaps if
>>you took more interest in Fortran language development you would have seen
>>some things which might change your mind.
>
>>I cannot emphasise this enough: it is all very well to say "forced declaration
>>is an unnecessary pain", but examination of the situation ***in reality***
>>shows that it is a NECESSARY pain (for large programs in particular).
>
>Really? I am getting tired of other prople trying to force religion on me.
>It would seem that the answer would lie in the sort of program you
>mention above, M.A.T. I have heard about it but never seen it. I'd love
>to get a copy. Can you E-mail one to me? 

[Is M.A.T. a public-domain program or is it a commercial software product?]


>
>Actually, the question is moot as far as I am concerned. Despite all
>the pain, the Fortran 8x proposal and other difficulties in Fortran,
>particularly  the rigid distinction between character and integer
>variables, have sent me to C. I don't like to have to declare variables,
>but do like the fact that integers, characters and logicals all can be used 
>easily together. I find it hard to understand how someone could object
>to undeclared variables and not object to this. In fact, such people
>probably like Pascal, straightjackets :-) :-) and the Marquis de Sade
>:-) :-) :-) :-) :-).

[I hate Pascal, straightjackets, etc...  Did you ever try running your C
 programs through lint????]


>
>The best thing to do , which would unfortunately reduce the flame level
>in comp.lang.c and comp.lang.fortran, would be to recognize that programming
>style is a matter of taste. What is right for one is not right for another
>. (FLAME ON! SMILEY FACES OFF! I recognize this. Do you? That was my point
>when I said no smiles in my earlier posting. Flame OFF!)) Frankly, I
>find flames fun.

[I hate flames...]

>
>Doug McDonald

Doug,

Perhaps you have not been part of a software development team as part of a
company which manufactures software. (or maybe you have, but have not shown
so in your followup)

The truth of the matter is this:  nobody is trying to force any "religious"
beliefs about declaring variables down your throat.  What I think is trying
to be said is that when you work on a program as part of a large system (that
is SOFTWARE system, not HARDWARE)...it is maintained by more than just one
person (generally) and must be written in such a manner that it is simple and
cost-effective to debug and maintain.  This is from a software development
company's standpoint, and not for the casual user, number-cruncher, or
university hacker.

To make a long story short, in order to make software maintainable by more
than just one person, certain software standards are developed.  Further,
it is difficult to find a mistake such as spelling a variable incorrectly
in the middle of a large program when variable declaration for everything
is not enforced.  If I didn't see this problem myself, I wouldn't care
either.  However, I can see now why some programmers push this concept so
much.

As for forcing it ALL the time...  I think it would be nice to be able to
revert-back to having the implicit declarations when desired.  However, being
the senior programmer (and in charge of the programming standards for myself
and those under me), I have pushed the idea of declaring all variables in
a FORTRAN program for both clarity and to reduce the number of unnoticed
bugs that will undoubtably occur as a result of misspelling or misdeclaring
a variable.

BTW:  Nobody where I work objects to this rule...

+====================================+========================================+
| Gil Kloepfer, Jr.                  | Net-Address:                           |
| Senior Programmer                  | {boulder,ihnp4,talcott}!icus!gil       |
| Bowne Management Systems, Inc.     | Voice:  Home: (516) 968-6860           |
| 235 E. Jericho Turnpike            |         Office: (516) 248-6840 x796    |
| Mineola, New York  11501           | Internet: gil@icus.UUCP                | 
+====================================+========================================+
| Disclaimer: My employers know I'm right, but will never admit to it...      |
+=============================================================================+