Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!gargoyle!ddsw1!karl
From: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Using an ANSI emulator with VMS editors
Summary: It doesn't work that way with the *DEC* utilities
Message-ID: <732@ddsw1.UUCP>
Date: 16 Feb 88 03:47:53 GMT
References: <2058@bsu-cs.UUCP> <719@ddsw1.UUCP> <1112@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>
Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger)
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Mundelein, IL
Lines: 51

In article <1112@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> hildum@iris.UUCP (Eric Hildum) writes:
>In article <719@ddsw1.UUCP> karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) writes:
$>The biggest problem with VAX/VMS and terminals (in my opinion) is that you 
$>can't make your own termcap entries.  The software knows of only a few 
$>terminals -- all DEC products.  (Ever wonder why there's such a market for
$>VT100/VT220 look-alike terminals?  Now you know!)

>The VAX/VMS Run-Time Library Routines Reference Manual describes in
>great detail how to support other manufacturers terminals.  Check
>section 3.10 (pages 3-27 through 3-49) for the proper method of
>support.

Ok.  Do the standard VAX utilities (ie: EDIT) work with these definitions (I
am thinking of something similar to curses here, where the user can redefine
things if their terminal is not 'standard')?  I've never seen it... (where's
that 'gold' key on my ADM3A?!)  

>For those people interested  in developing code using the screen
>management routines, the bulk of chapter three is devoted to
>explaining the routines and how to PROPERLY use them.

This may be true -- but I don't want to WRITE programs, I want to use the
items which came with the operating system!

>Too often I have seen stupidly written code for VMS.  Now I understand
>why, the engineers for these companies are spending too much time
>complaining about why VMS doesn't do what they want, and not enough
>time learning that, in fact, the solution is already there.

The solution is not there if you want to simply use the DEC-supplied
utilities.  I just logged into the VAX that I have access to, and looked
around (to make sure I was not having a fit of dyslexia).  As expected (the
last time I did a close exam was VMS V3) there was no mention of any device
type other than DEC and (supposedly) ANSI.  My ANSI emulator couldn't quite
handle the 'Ansi', though... and there was no way to change VMS's idea of
what my ANSI terminal looks like for use with EDIT, for example.

$>Your only solution would be to write a filter routine which you insert in
$>your terminal program (or pipe to/from it) that translates *all* the DEC
$>control codes to what uport wants to see.  Yuck.

The solution, while I admit is ugly, will work.  Show me the easy way.  I
would love to be able to define the 'look and feel' of my terminal to a VMS
system, but haven't seen it done yet.  Remember, the goal is to make it
work with the DEC-supplied software and a reasonable percentage of
applications software.

------
Karl Denninger		       |  Data: +1 312 566-8912
Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. | Voice: +1 312 566-8910
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