Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!unisoft!hoptoad!gnu
From: gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: AT&T/Sun merged UNIX
Message-ID: <3991@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: 2 Feb 88 03:59:08 GMT
References: <398@grand.UUCP> <7766@sunybcs.UUCP> <1387@winchester.mips.COM> <7192@brl-smoke.ARPA>
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco
Lines: 99

One reason that a merged Unix might not track the standards is if the
standards themselves do not track.  There are still incompatabilities
between ANSI C and POSIX (last I heard), and standards committees have
a long track record of producing botched products -- I trust Bill Joy
and Guy Harris and the folks who implement it *as* they write it,
a lot more than I trust committees who write it and later see if it
really works.  The busted "multi volume tar" stuff from the POSIX
standard is a great example of camel design by committee.

On the business aspects of the merger, there's a big article in the SF
Chronicle Business section today about "Sun Micro's New Forays Unsettle
Competitors", by Don Clark of the Chronicle.  Mostly it explains the
stuff we all know, but:

	"Representatives of 15 major computer makers flew to New York to
meet with Vittorio Cassoni, president of AT&T's computer operations.
Not all were reassured.
	"`Frankly, the concerns I walked in with I still have,' said
Barbara Shelhoss, Apollo Computer's representative at the meeting.
	..."After AT&T's investment with Sun was announced in early
January, the critics gathered in secret at Digital Equipment's Palo Alto
offices.  Signatories to a resulting telegram of protest included chief
executives at HP, Tandem Computer, Prime, and Apollo.
	"`If there hadn't been an equity stake, nobody's antennae would
have gone up,` said Robert Miller, chief executive of Mips Computer
Systems, who also signed the letter.
	..."Some of the critics have suggested fielding a rival Unix
development team, though they would much rather be guaranteed input in
the Sun-AT&T effort.
	"`The idea of having one Unix coordinated by AT&T is a major
advantage for the entire industry,' said Ed McCracken, chief executive
of Sun rival Silicon Graphics Inc."


Here's my two cents on the issue (disclaimer: I was emp #5 of Sun,
though I've been gone more than two years).  DEC, HP, Apollo, etc were
happy with AT&T controlling Unix when it was clear AT&T was not a
competitive threat.  AT&T's inability to sell computers is legendary.
In a tighter partnership with Sun, AT&T might actually be able to make
money at computers, which would give the protesters a major competitor
rather than a pussycat.

DEC, HP, and other major players have certainly had to watch Sun as a
competitor, but the threat was limited by Sun's ability to grow,
increase manufacturing volume, and find new distribution channels.
With AT&T capital, marketing, and distribution channels, they can't
afford to treat Sun as a minor player any more.

Had AT&T come up to them with an offer to buy 20% of their companies,
they probably wouldn't be yelling.  But they didn't pick up the ball
with Unix and run as far or as fast as Sun did.  I can't see AT&T
coming to HP to define the new Unix standard, I mean HP/UX is probably
OK but it's not worldshaking.  Ditto Ultrix.  Apollo has been working
hard to cram Unix into their OS but it's still not Unix.  These
companies have concentrated on locking their customers into the
existing hardware & software base, not in opening their systems to
innovation and competition, or on enhancing "what is Unix and what it
provides".

Sun has not only defended and expanded the BSD "territory" against
AT&T, while just about everybody else was knuckling under to AT&T's
"consider it standard" marketing blitz, but has also pushed the state
of the art of Unix networking and graphics.  Not to mention having the
design sense, technical ability, and skilled negotiation to produce a
merged SV/BSD Unix, ending the years-long split, rather than a "dual
port" or a Unisoft-like mishmash.  AT&T showed uncommon sense in
teaming up with Sun, the only company in the Unix market able and
willing to beat them technically.

Considering some of the other companies AT&T bought once it got
de-reg'd, Sun may be its best investment so far.

In summary, I think the 15 companies are bitching because the AT&T/Sun
partnership is a strong competitor.

And a standard for Unix binaries for a particular chip line is a great
idea, which should've happened in 1981 for the 68000, but didn't.  That
Sun remembered to do it for the SPARC should bring them roses, not
thorns.  This doesn't hurt anybody.  One would hope that HP/UX
applications that run on various Spectrum models are all binary
compatible, but of course it doesn't matter to the outside world since
they don't license Spectrum implementations to outsiders.  So is their
complaint that Sun is giving away the SPARC design?

I heard that DEC got Tektronix out of the workstation market by 
threatening to stop buying Tek graphics terminals -- DEC was their
biggest customer.  Maybe the 15 whiners should threaten to switch to
MCI for phone service :-) and see if AT&T responds.

If they are concerned about basing their products on AT&T/Sun-controlled
Unix, why don't they fund the GNU project, like they're funding the X
project, so they and the world can all share a non-AT&T-licensed
Unix like system?  A major open-systems effort is probably the right
medicine, if they are feeling a bit green around the gills.  This could
even impact the ABI stuff -- who would buy ABI applications in binary
when they could get full sources of a GNU-based Unix?
-- 
{pyramid,ptsfa,amdahl,sun,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu			  gnu@toad.com
		"Watch me change my world..." -- Liquid Theatre