Xref: utzoo comp.dcom.modems:1362 news.misc:1198 Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!gargoyle!ddsw1!karl From: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,news.misc Subject: Re: Telebit Modems Summary: Our distribution is *on*, and available to those who want it Message-ID: <572@ddsw1.UUCP> Date: 4 Feb 88 15:46:45 GMT References: <3128@phri.UUCP> <281@jc3b21.UUCP> Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) Distribution: na Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Mundelein, IL Lines: 117 In article <281@jc3b21.UUCP> jra@jc3b21.UUCP (Jay R. Ashworth) writes: >In article <515@ddsw1.UUCP> karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) writes: >} there is another distribution being started this weekend here at 'ddsw1' >} for commercial-type postings. [...] The name of the top-level group is >} 'biz', and vendors may have their own group(s). > >In article <3128@phri.UUCP>, roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) replies: >{ Uh, last I heard the top-level name was still being hashed out, and >{ biz was only one of several posibilities (others include com, cml, prod, >{ vendor, and I'm sure I missed a few). Are we jumping the gun here? > >Now, we all know that Roy is a great guy and all, and does a lot of good >works for the net.at.large. Karl also kicks in his share of the >goodies. Whence the conflict, then? I think (in the immortal words >of--now, who the heck was that, anyway) that what we have here is a >failure to communicate. The operative words, here, Roy, seem to be >"here at ddsw1". The distribution Karl is talking about appears to be >something separate from any other (read: backbone supported?) commercial >distributions which may be in the works. 'Biz' was the group name chosen for several reasons (if you want a run-down on this, mail me... I can send you more) It is true. We have begun this distriubtion, along with about 20 other interested parties, due to the following considerations: 1) We do not, initially at least, want this to be a 'backbone-supported' set of groups. This means we are free to post as we will to this area, without the specter of 'being commercial' having any effect whatsoever. In fact, it's specifically mentioned in the document which explains the groups that commercial postings *will* appear in this distribution, and if you don't want them, you should not carry the groups. 2) All companies (and individuals) who carry these groups will know the 'terms and conditions'. No one will be fed "just because it's there". Since you have to *ask* for the feed, you know what's coming (this should prevent flaming about 'commercial' postings). >Whether this is due to Karl's obvious enthusiasm for the idea, or a >lack, somehow, of knowledge on his part that such a group was about to >be started on somebody else's part, I don't know. But I'm not certain >it really matters, does it? Since this tier of groups will--I >assume--be carried on demand only, like the alt. subnet, by machines >who want to get it. I doesn't seem to matter who starts it or where it >comes from, except for orthogonality reasons. If there are other >reasons, aside from avoiding duplication, I'd like for someone to point >them out to me. It's due to my enthusiasm for this distribution and lack of desire to support yet-another-moderated-and-traditional set of Usenet groups. Don't get me wrong -- we'd love to have the backbone pick this distribution up (hint: we can feed 'ihnp4' or anyone else in Chicago direct if you guys want this -- but it means that you must accept the message mix and content AS IS). What is not tolerable is the 'backbone' telling us, the vendors who are to be making use of this distribution, what is and is not appropriate. For these reasons this newsgroup set was started apart from the backbone. >Understand, I can see that splitting commercial sub-groups amongst two >different namespaces in the domain (terminology?) could be a pain. What >I don't understand is why, if Karl starts a distribution, another one >would be necessary--unless the backbones were planning on carrying it? Well, this I have to agree with..... it could be a pain. Then again, the backbone could decide to carry the 'biz' distribution. I suspect that it will be quite popular even if the backbone *doesn't* carry it though (from the volume of requests I have received) Anyway, here's the scoop on 'biz': 1) The 'biz' distribution has been created at 'ddsw1'. About a half-dozen sites across the country have requested feeds from us direct so far -- these we will provide (as well as a feed to anyone else who wants it and can poll us -- we have Telebit service). We currently are testing the distribution between 'igloo' <> 'ddsw1', with it scheduled to be 'turned on' this evening for real use. 2) The groups *will* carry messages with commercial content. In particular, whatever occurs within a vendor's set of groups is entirely up to them -- advertising included. 3) The distribution looks like this: biz.config - Configuration questions, etc. biz.test - The mandatory test area (boring) biz.comp.hardware - Non-vendor specific hardware postings biz.comp.software - Non-vendor specific hardware postings biz.comp.services - Non-vendor specific services postings biz.comp.telebit - Telebit modem informatioin biz.comp.mcs - Macro computer Solutions information biz.comp.xxxxx - Top-level group for company 'xxxxx' Note a few things about this scheme: 1) Top-level groups for VENDORS will not be moderated by mutual agreement. Vendors may create sub-groups under their top-level which *are* moderated if desired. This allows a vendor to have a place to put their information without interferance, and also allows the users of the newsgroup to post to the firm's group without easy censorship being possible. 2) Any firm can be *specifically* excluded easily if needed. This will be a natural check-and-balance on the "post the entire catalog and all advertising drivel". Those firms who do this will simply have everyone putting "!biz.comp.xxx" in their sys files (effectively isolating them). 3) Those vendors who don't want to go to the trouble to get their own group can post to the .hardware, .sofware, and .services groups without problems. This makes the 'cost of entry' to the biz distribution nearly zero. 4) Anyone who wants fed can mail me for a feed..... Hope this clarifies things a bit! ----- Karl Denninger | Data: +1 312 566-8912 Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. | Voice: +1 312 566-8910 ...ihnp4!ddsw1!karl | "Quality solutions for work or play"