Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!lll-winken!lll-lcc!ames!ll-xn!mit-eddie!killer!elg
From: elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: In defence of the K-12 school system
Message-ID: <3536@killer.UUCP>
Date: 29 Feb 88 05:35:23 GMT
References: <73@unibase.UUCP>
Organization: Bayou Telecommunications
Lines: 78

in article <73@unibase.UUCP>, leigh2@unibase.UUCP (Leigh Calnek) says:
> As an educator with responsibilities at the K-12 level, I
> seem to detect a note of superiority expressed in many of
> the postings where they relate to the lower echelons of the
> education system.

No, it's just that we finished bashing colleges last week, and moved on :-).

> we seem too quick to forget that western society has
> embraced a philosophy of universal education, at least for
> the population at the K-12 level.  

Universal need not equal low quality, if we insure that high ability people
have access to the teachers needed to develop their talents. Unfortunately, in
Europe and (maybe) Canada, such an approach is decried as "elitism". I can
understand that, to some extent... in Britain, at least, the lower class/poor
people were forced to go to shoddy public-supported schools because of
economic pressures, while the upper classes went to "exclusive" "elite"
schools. Maybe some backlash was inevitable.

But still, even here in the U.S., support for the gifted/talented student
often is negligible until high school, after which time it's too late for many
things. For example, the local school system's gifted/talented program for
elementary schools consists of a single school teacher, who teaches mostly
something called "cognitive studies" that's supposed to teach students "how to
think". In my conversations with local school students, they seem to think
it's mostly just a way of getting out of class for awhile (note the
class=boring, dull, something to get out of attitude -- and these are
extremely intelligent students, need a score of 150 on a standard IQ test to
be classed as "gifted and talented" in this area). None of them feel that it's
anything more than a joke.
   Nope, they don't get any more science than other students.  
   Nope, they don't get any more math than other students. Until they reach
high school, when they're expected to take Algebra and Geometry instead of
"Consumer Math". 
   Meanwhile, I remember a conversation I had with a Syrian student back in
1982. His government sent him to an "elite" school. He'd had two years of
Calculus by the 9th grade. Of course, the average Syrian is lucky to be taught
how to read. No "supermarket" schooling there.
   But surely we're advanced enough to have both?

> address the needs of the other 85-90%.  Remember when you
> criticize the teacher at the K-12 level, and his methods,
> that this teacher is a product of your system as well, and
> if we are unhappy about what happens in those K-12
> institutions, some introspection on your part may be well
> advised.

Didn't I see that discusion two weeks ago? :-)

> secondary institutions be different if they were required to
> accept ALL who presented themselves?  If they were subject
> to close scrutiny at the community level?

Sounds like a typical public state university. In Louisiana, at least, the
state is under court order by the Justice Department. Under the terms of the
consent decree, state schools are forbidden to turn away students who have a
high school degree or GED, regardless of ACT/SAT scores, and they must provide
remedial courses for the low scorers, to do the job that high schools should
have done. The Justice Department simply noticed that test scores were
effectively segregating the state university system, via a very simple
mechanism -- black/poor students are not being given the education necessary
for them to succeed at the college level, without remedial schooling to catch
them up to where high school should have brought them. The black universities
provided that remedial schooling. The white universities rejected the
applicants. Presto, instant segregation. Chango, court order slapped on the
state forbidding that practice.
  Note that these students apparently are motivated (they applied for college,
didn't they?) and want to succeed. But because of the poor state of our inner
city schools, they were not given the schooling they needed, despite being
motivated. It is a nation-wide disaster, the throwing away of much-needed
talent, and a national disgrace. 

--
Eric Lee Green  elg@usl.CSNET     Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191      
{cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg         Lafayette, LA 70509            

Come on, girl, I ain't looking for no fight/You ain't no beauty, but hey
you're alright/And I just need someone to love/tonight