Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!seismo!sundc!pitstop!sun!decwrl!labrea!aurora!eos!ames!hao!oddjob!gargoyle!ihnp4!cuuxb!ltuxa!ll1a!nesac2!jec
From: jec@nesac2.UUCP (John Carter ATLN SADM)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: In defence of the K-12 school system
Message-ID: <981@nesac2.UUCP>
Date: 28 Feb 88 15:30:53 GMT
References: <73@unibase.UUCP>
Organization: A.T.&T. Lisle, Ill.
Lines: 143
Summary: and a hearty 'Amen' (LONG)

In article <73@unibase.UUCP>, leigh2@unibase.UUCP (Leigh Calnek) writes:
                [article has been edited]
] 
] As an educator with responsibilities at the K-12 level, I
] seem to detect a note of superiority expressed in many of
] the postings where they relate to the lower echelons of the
] education system.  This is not surprising to me in that I
] have always noted that the K-12 system was not held in high
] regard by educators from post secondary institutions.
] 
] There are some things that we need to remember however when
] we criticize our education system.  In the first instance,
] we seem too quick to forget that western society has
] embraced a philosophy of universal education, at least for
] the population at the K-12 level.  

Free education, free transportation, free/reduced cost meals,
special facilities for children with special needs (including
elevators for those in wheelchairs), special programs for
exceptional children (exceptional can range from those with learning
disabililties to the 'gifted' children that are working at a level
well beyond their school placement and need challenging courses).

]                                    We forget the
] implications of this kind of philosophy, especially when we
] don't have to implement it.  I would suggest that if we were
] to apply that same philosophy to the post secondary level,
] we would have at least an equivalent number of concerns
] about that system.  Please recognize the benefits which come
] from only having to accept the top 10-15% of the population,
] and the problems which must be present when you try to
] address the needs of the other 85-90%.  Remember when you
] criticize the teacher at the K-12 level, and his methods,
] that this teacher is a product of your system as well, and
] if we are unhappy about what happens in those K-12
] institutions, some introspection on your part may be well
] advised.

Just how good is the education provided a prospective teacher in any
given college/university?  Is it both broad and in depth?  Does it
cover handling a child with dyslexia, one that's hungry for food,
one that's starved for affection, one that's abused by parents, one
that's on drugs/alcohol, one that's pregnant?  Now that the teacher
has the attention of the class, was there also time for the teacher to
learn to be an educator while in college?

] 
] I do not want to suggest for a moment that all is well in
] the K-12 sector....but let's keep the problem in perspective
] and recognize the magnitude of the issues involved in
] attempting to educate an entire population.  How would post
] secondary institutions be different if they were required to
] accept ALL who presented themselves?  If they were subject
] to close scrutiny at the community level?  If social
] pressure prohibited a failure rate of less than 10%?

My daughter will enter Georgia Tech aa a freshman in engineering
this fall - the 'failure rate' of freshman engineers is typically
greater than 50%.  And even though Tech is a 'public' institution,
it's not FREE ($2200/qtr if living on campus).  
How would you react to paying tuition directly to a 'public' school
and then finding that your child had failed?  Was it the teacher(s),
the child, the system, the parents or some other cause?

My children attended a church affiliated kindergarten, but
their 1-12 education has been entirely in the public system.  The
county we're in is consistently in the top 5 in the state, and the
high school my daughter is attending, although not the largest or
newest, is among the best in the state (four National Merit
semi-finalists this year, and all of them are now finalists - how
many public schools of any size can match that?)


]                                                       If 52%
] of the student population came from broken homes

The area here is growing, and there are a lot of short term job
assignments (two years or so) for the 'rising young executives'.
This frequently means that both parents work, and that there are
many stresses on the family.  

My daughter was the only child in her fifth grade class whose parents
weren't both working full time.  (Makes it very difficult to get parents
to help with any school function, especially field trips. Would you take
a day off so your child could visit the China exhibit at the High Museum?)
She was also in the odd 20% of the class who lived with both
original parents.

] and for the
] most part that population was still trying to figure out who
] they were and what was their purpose in life?  

Our kids find 'who am I?' a difficult question, and entirely too
many of them try the quick way out - three kids that my kids know
personally have attempted suicide in the past year.  Thanks to quick
action by parents and the miracles of modern medicine (including a
helipad at the hospital) two of them were not successful.  There
have been numerous suicide attempts among the middle and high school
students, and 10 have succeeded in the past two years (ONE county).

Why? 
Too much pressure from their parents about school. (From a
conversation with one of the kids who wasn't successful.)

Too little response by parents to the kids' needs for some real
attention.  

# comment on the above
# When my 13 year old daughter tells me a girl friend doesn't understand
# how she can talk to me about 'going with' someone - because the
# friend's father gets all upset if she mentions it - I think perhaps
# some parents just don't listen to what the kids say (or what they
# mean).  For those who need it, 'going with' usually translates to
# who is likely to call whom on the phone or be invited to a mixed
# birthday party (ages 10-13)  or who might meet whom at the movies or
# at the Friday night social sponsored by one of the local churches
# (ages 12-14).  ** This is subject to local variations ** and is only
# valid for the group of kids I know from school/church involvement.

Too much concern over grades and not enough concern for education.
(there is a difference).

]                                                 I would
] suggest that most of these issues do not need to be
] addressed by the post secondary institutions, and indeed if
] they were, we would have most of the same kinds of concerns
] that we currently express about the K-12 system.  
] 
] My experience has all been in Canada, but I suspect that
] some reasonable parallels can be drawn.  

My experience is in the US, as a parent, PTA member/officer, church
volunteer, camp counselor.

The opinions are my own - my company deals in communications and
education, but not at the K-12 level.  

C programming or UNIX school, anyone?

-- 
USnail: John Carter, AT&T, Atlanta RWC, 3001 Cobb Parkway, Atlanta GA 30339
Video:	...ihnp4!cuea2!ltuxa!ll1!nesac2!jec    Voice: 404+951-4642
(The above views are my very own. How dare you question them? :-)