Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!lll-winken!lll-lcc!ames!umd5!uvaarpa!mcnc!rti!rcb
From: rcb@rti.UUCP (Random)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Help us defend against VMS!
Message-ID: <2075@rti.UUCP>
Date: 1 Mar 88 13:34:41 GMT
References: <2235@bsu-cs.UUCP>
Reply-To: rcb@rti.UUCP (Random)
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Lines: 93

In article <2235@bsu-cs.UUCP> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes:
>
>>Hello Unix Wizards!
>>
>>	Our campus is almost on the verge of being turned into a VMS
>>filled campus due to the lack of knowledge of the person in charage of
>>computing services here.  The next couple of months will determine
>>what the campus computer scene will be like during the next decade.
>>This person has in mind buying Vaxes with VMS, and DECnet with lots of
>>money...
>
>Unix systems are relatively bundled, beyond mere hardware
>considerations most Unix systems right out of the box are completely
>useable. It can be supplemented in many significant ways with free or
>nearly free (eg.  ~$100 for an entire campus) software. VMS is heavily
>unbundled, from day one if you want so much as a compiler you begin
>layering heavy costs. And you'll pay a separate price for acquiring
>and maintaining software on every CPU running VMS on campus. This will
>quickly lock you out of the workstation market, having to add $100K in
>basic software costs to 40 VMS workstations can put a real damper on a
>typical University's plans, no matter how good the intentions.
>

I tried REAL HARD to let this one go by without response. I failed.

1. DEC's new software library makes the cost argument pointless. 
In the library, some group in your organization is designated as the
keeper of the distribution and master manuals. They should be a group
that can provide VMS support for the rest of the organization.
Other people with vaxes can add their machine to the library for a small
yearly cost (cost depends on what you have in the library). They are
then licensed for ALL products in the library. The cost here for
some 25 products is around $800. This product list also includes
Ultrix and DEC's ultrix products (like VMS fortran for Ultrix)

2. Manuals. In the library, any manuals you need your own copy of can
be purchased through the library at substantial discounts. (because
that will become a single point of volume sales, they can afford it).

3. Support. ALL products in the library are backed up by DEC support.
The library group has access to the Telephone Support Center for
questions on any product (vms or ultrix).

4. Ease of upgrades. True using vms locks you into one architecture.
That means that your nifty graphical product that you wrote on vms
may not port to a cray very easily. However, I have been involved in
product ports from unix to vms and am familiar with ports from one unix
to another and the situation is not much better. I have just as many if not
more problems moving software between different versions of unix as I have
between unix and vms. The software in question was written in C on unix
and had some serious I/O and memory requirements. Just look at all the
notices in the sources groups about code that has a bug on machine
xyz's unix.

---------------

Anyway, enough of the preaching. The above leans a little heavily to the
vms side, but only the counter the extreme unix leaning of the previous
posting. In my opinion, both unix and vms have a place in a university.
There is a LOT of companies out there that have never even heard of unix
but have vaxes all over the place. (i hate to say this, but) there is a
vastly greater number of companies out there that have nothing but 
IBM (boo, hiss) computers. If we want universities to prepare students for
the real world, we should be teaching them IBM operating systems :-)

However, now for the proposal. What you want for your university does not
really matter. There is no reason for this either/or argument. Why not do
the following. 

	- Buy the vaxes (they run unix just fine)
	- Set up equal numbers running unix and vms
	- Allow students to try out both and work on which ever one they like.
	- Watch the load on the machines and buy more for which ever OS
		is the most heavily loaded.

Simple no? After all, most of the religious flames in this argument I believe
come from whatever system the person originally learned on. I learned on
VMS, so that's what I use best. I am most efficient on VMS because I know
it the best. Most of what I do could be done on either.

The real beauty of the DEC software library is that you can switch a machine
from one OS to the other easily. We have a lot of workstations around
here and people work on both OS's at times. I would like to promote the
opinion that that persons vaxstation can run whatever OS they are 
need for their current project and then change with the next project
if need be.

Oh well, this is getting too long. That's all for now.

-- 
					Randy Buckland (919)-541-7103
					Research Triangle Institute
					rcb@rti.rti.org [128.109.139.2]
					{decvax,ihnp4}!mcnc!rti!rcb