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From: svpillay@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kanthan Pillay)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Call for votes: comp.binaries.hypercard
Message-ID: <1866@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Date: 26 Feb 88 23:52:36 GMT
References: <454@stech.UUCP> <960@athos.rutgers.edu> <42857@sun.uucp> <18326@topaz.rutgers.edu>
Reply-To: svpillay@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kanthan Pillay)
Organization: Princeton University, NJ
Lines: 67

In article <18326@topaz.rutgers.edu> webber@topaz.rutgers.edu (Webber) writes:
(in response to Chuq's posting)
>
>Your little tirade on obsfucation was amusing.  The issues are really
>simple.  Usenet is based on Unix which is grounded in a philosophy of
>open systems, machine independence, and knowledgeable users using
>sophisticated tools.

Usenet based on Unix? How do you figure this? The majority of users who
access Usenet here at Princeton use an IBM3081 mainframe. A unique case,
you say? Nope. The driver that we use here for Usenet is also used at
many other IBM sites around this country. Try telling all of those users
that they should be using a Unix machine and you'ld be asking for
trouble. Try telling them that Usenet is _reserved_ for Unix machines,
and then you would _really_ be in hot water. 

I use a Unix machine, yes, but I am not so self-centred to insist that
all people who access Usenet's information be "knowledgeable users".
Talk about arrogance!

>Binaries are closed, system dependent, and based
>on hiding the workings from the user (for their own good, of course).

Own good has nothing to do with it. I can appreciate Bill Atkinson
sitting tight with the source code for HyperCard. It's a bit difficult
translating this to Unix terms. Simply, you need to be a Mac user to
understand.

>While some people are willing to tolerate binary groups because of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tolerance has nothing to do with it. If you don't want to receive the
binary groups at your site, you're free to do that...

>general ``potential'' of micros, this is mostly because the typical
>micro binary would be useless to anyone else as it is just an attempt
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The C source code posted to comp.sources.unix is useless to the majority
of users here at Princeton. I don't hear them complaining.

>to implement standard functionalities in a particularly restrictive
>environment. 
Restrictive by your standards. I can pick up my Mac and tote it around
the world, as can all those Mac users out there. You want to tote around
your workstation? And my Mac gives me complete access to the Unix
environment.

>However, with hypercard, you are beginning to develope
>structures that would useful on non-micros. To purposely pass such
>information in needlessly obscure formats is really quite improper.
>----- BOB (webber@athos.rutgers.edu ; rutgers!athos.rutgers.edu!webber)

What does that have to do with Mac users? Surely it should be the
responsibility of the (I assume) Unix users ... sorry, knowledgeable
users, to take the trouble of downloading such files to his/her Mac,
converting them to Unix-usable forms, and then distribute these in the
appropriate places? Needlessly obscure format? Sure, from a Unix
perspective it would be obscure, but I don't hear Mac users lining up to
shoot Bill Atkinson because he hasn't released the source code for
Hypercard.

You're out of line by attempting to restrict the way others should use
the net, Webber. I'll take the binaries as is, thank you very much. You
find a way to translate those stacks on your own time.
							Kanthan.

-- 
Do I really need a signature?