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From: atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: Re: Welcome to comp.sys.mac.programmer
Message-ID: <7390001@hpindda.HP.COM>
Date: 24 Feb 88 00:44:50 GMT
References: <42507@sun.uucp>
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Lines: 75

>/ hpindda:comp.sys.mac.programmer / chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) /  9:23 pm  Feb 22, 1988 /
>>I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming
>>on it.  But I frankly haven't a clue where to start.  Can any of you
>>recommend some reading material?  Thanks,
>
>For pascal, you've got LightSpeed Pascal. I'm sure there're others (is there
>a turbo pascal? I don't hack pascal, so I havne't paid much attention). 
I've got Turbo Pascal for the Mac.  I haven't used LSP, but I've made a lot
of inquiries about it and I've got some advice.  Both TP and LSP have
advantages and disadvantages.  Which you choose depends on what is more
important to you.  LSP has a wonderful symbolic debugger, TP does not
(debugging in TP is a real pain, macsbugs doesn't help, and TMON is too
expensive).  However, TP has a better editor then LSP.  The TP editor is
just a simple text editor (which is exactly what you want for a source
code editor).  LSP tries to get fancy by doing syntax checking on the fly,
which makes cutting and pasting a real chore (ie. cutting out a section of
code may cause an immediate syntax error, if your cut creates an invalid
program--like I said, I've never used LSP, so if I'm wrong here, please
someone correct me).  I use TP, and will probably stay with it for a while.
I MAY get LSC when 3.0 becomes available......(maybe).

>For C, there's lightspeed C. It'll just about slice bread for you. It's
>inexpensive. And if you buy it after February 1, you get release 3.0 free
>when it comes out. Release 3.0 has a symbolic debugger, which, even if it is
>only half functional, will be wonderful. 
I look forward to here reviews about this when it becomes available.  BTW,
WHEN is 3.0 coming?  Real Soon Now?  Rich?

>By the way, I recommend C. It's a lot more natural for Mac Programming than
>Pascal is, even though the Mac was done in pascal). 
Why is it more natural?  Isn't it harder to use things like Inside Macintosh
when you have to remember how the C calling convention works?

>It's all in Pascal, so if you bought LSC, you'll need a
>book to help you get used to translating concepts.
I think this proves my point.

>Next you'll need books. Go buy the two book set by Chernicoff on the Mac
>Toolbox. The best introduction and general discussion of Mac programming
>et al book by Sybex (programming the Mac toolbox in C) and the Mednieks book
>by Sams (C and the art of Mac programming). Neither is specifically aimed at
>LSC -- in fact, there is NO book about LightSpeed C programming, which I
>find insane -- but the concepts work in any compiler. MAybe Sybex will get
>smart and issue an updated version of Takatsuka in LSC.
How about the two book set "How to Program the Macintosh" (or some such
thing), I forget who wrote them.  Or is the Chernicoff book set that you
are talking about?

>Other Books. Inside Mac is a good investment, if terrible bedside reading.
Oh I don't know, I found it very good at putting me to sleep :-)

>Other ideas. Avoid fortran. Always a good idea, in general, anyway.
I can't even imagine trying to write a "real" mac application in fortran.
Can you imagine what the code for the main event processing loop would look
like?  I shudder......
Please, no flames from the fortran people out there, if you actually exist.
If there is someone out there who actually writes real mac applications in
fortran, then they are a better programmer than me.  However, there sanity
may be questionable :-)

>Yummo, as a friend of mine might say.
>
>chuq
>Chuq Von Rospach			chuq@sun.COM		Delphi: CHUQ
>
>                       What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?'
>                                    I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick!
>----------

Good luck, in whatever you decide to get started with.

			-lee
----
Lee Atchison
Hewlett Packard, Information Networks Division
atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com