Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!bloom-beacon!gatech!mcnc!decvax!cca!g-rh
From: g-rh@cca.CCA.COM (Richard Harter)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: The D Programming Language
Message-ID: <25387@cca.CCA.COM>
Date: 8 Mar 88 08:40:37 GMT
References: <25284@cca.CCA.COM> <1354@laidbak.UUCP>
Reply-To: g-rh@CCA.CCA.COM.UUCP (Richard Harter)
Organization: Computer Corp. of America, Cambridge, MA
Lines: 87

In article <1354@laidbak.UUCP> daveb@laidbak.UUCP (Dave Burton) writes:
>In article <25284@cca.CCA.COM> g-rh@CCA.CCA.COM.UUCP (Richard Harter) writes:
>>Here is another feature for D whose absence in C has been irksome to
>>me -- I would like to be able to return several items from a function.
>>... But how do I get stuff back.
>>... Things which are returned need a mechanism equivalent to pass
>>by address.

>Please don't design D until you understand C.

Er, Dave, may I suggest it is inadvisable to make remarks such as
"Please don't design D until you understand C".  I am not a C guru;
I read with respect the comments of people such as Chris Torek and
Henry Spencer.  I don't need to be a complete expert in the language.
None-the-less I have been programming for 27 years, writing C for six
of those years, have written ~100,000 lines of C, and have dealt with
the vagaries of C implementations on a variety of operating systems.  

>C has had pass by reference for a very long time (since its inception?).

Actually C has never had pass by reference -- what it has had is a facility
for simulating call by reference, which is a somewhat different matter.

>The following useless code illustrates:
>
>	int flag, foobar();
>	x = foobar(&flag);
>	...
>	int foobar(arg)
>		int *arg;
>	{
>		*arg = 1;
>		return 0;
>	}
>
>Now, what could be simpler?

And this is what I was alluding to when I referred to playing games with
pointers.  In the call statement you have to add an &; in each reference
in the routine you add a *.  You have to also select one item as a 
distinguished item which is returned by the function among those that
are returned.  Of course you can do this -- you don't have much option
about it.  But it is a kludge, and it is prone to error.  Throughout the
code you "mean" flag, but sometimes you write &flag, and sometimes you
write *flag, depending on where you are.  Fortunately, the effects of
ommitting an & or a * are so drastic that typographic bugs of this sort
are caught immediately.  But I've seen it come up a number of times.

A more subtle point is that there is a difference in semantics between
returning a list and passing things through the calling sequence.  A
returned value is private unless it is explictly declared as a global;
an item passed through a calling sequence may be a global and the called
routine does not know this.  For example,

FILE 1:

int x;
foo () {
  ....
  x = 2;
  baz(x,&x);
  }

FILE 2:

extern x;
baz(in,out)
  int in, *out;
{
  *out = 1;
  ...
  *out = *out + x;
  }

is quite different from the same code where baz is a function returning
a value which is declared internally.  Call by reference is subject to
unintended aliasing, whether it be real call by reference or simulated
call by reference.

Finally, there is one other annoying consequence of the pointer hack.
You can run into pointer to 0 dereferencing problems if you aren't
careful.  You shouldn't, but you can.
-- 

In the fields of Hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die.
	Richard Harter, SMDS  Inc.