Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!cfa!ward
From: ward@cfa.harvard.EDU (Steve Ward)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Help us defend against VMS!
Message-ID: <910@cfa.cfa.harvard.EDU>
Date: 7 Mar 88 23:41:06 GMT
References: <2235@bsu-cs.UUCP> <892@cfa.cfa.harvard.EDU> <20403@bu-cs.BU.EDU> <1648@uoregon.UUCP>
Organization: Harvard-Smithsonian Ctr. for Astrophysics
Lines: 61
Summary: about raw cpu speed....

In article <1648@uoregon.UUCP>, dboyes@uoregon.UUCP (David Boyes) writes:
> In article <20403@bu-cs.BU.EDU> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes:
> >
> >In fact, I think DEC has done an unfortunate disservice, more of a
> >sociological phenomena, by plying to the scientific community and then
> >leaving them out in the cold with incompatible fortran
> 
> In all fairness to DEC, you don't have to use the extensions at all
> and things will port very well. I move programs from VMS Fortran to VS
> Fortran on our IBM box all the time.
> 
> >and no iron to
> >grow into and remain competitive with their more nimble colleagues.
> 
> True. I'd kill for a medium sized Masscomp or a Convex. Even a medium
> size IBM 9370 would be an improvement.
> 
> >
> >	-Barry Shein, Boston University
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Boyes         | ARPA: 556%OREGON1.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.ED

Before anybody "kill for a MASSCOMP" they might do some serious FORTRAN
benchmarking and general testing, but THAT is another story....(we have
a couple of them here....)

We also have a couple of CONVEX's and an IBM 4381, too.  The comments
from our researcher scientists and programmers about DEC Fortran are 
overwhelmingly positive, in favor of it, and the dozens of annually
visiting scientists from around the globe EXPECT DEC FORTRAN to be up
and running.

Everybody loves a faster computer, one way in a multiuser environment to
get more cpu is to give the same cpu to many few concurrent users.  We
do
this with VAXes.  VAXes are getting faster, but DEC lags behind some
vendors in the fastest cpu race.  On the other hand DEC offers VAX 
workstations at great prices (for us they start at about $3K each).
We run many 1 scientist to the machine and run other larger
configurations with 16 concurrent users or fewer.  The cost per user
is lowest for us with DEC VAXes of various MicroVAX and VAXstation 
models.

As I said, we also have other machines, including Sun workstations,
tooo.

The only truly "fast" machines are the NSF supercomputers we access from
our networked based VMS/Ultrix VAXes, Sun's, etc.  Our approx. 150 PHD
researcher scientists on staff in this research outfit seem to do well
using a mixed machine environment, and DEC Fortran and DEC VAXes remain
quite popular among them.  I agree that you want to avoid any precooked
mindset of "one machine, one operating system, one compiler" etc, but
DEC does offer some useful and very economical options, at least to us
through our DEC University Consortium contract.  We will continue to
take advantage of the depth and breadth of market offerings that make
sense for us.  I would think that while you don't want to be locked
into a vendor, you certainly don't want to lock any vendors out, either.

U