Xref: utzoo comp.unix.wizards:6901 comp.os.vms:5168 Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att-cb!cbosgd!wright!jsloan From: jsloan@wright.EDU (John Sloan) Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.os.vms Subject: Re: Help us defend against VMS! Message-ID: <285@wright.EDU> Date: 7 Mar 88 14:06:00 GMT References: <310@nancy.UUCP> Organization: Wright State University, Dayton OH, 45435 Lines: 71 in article <310@nancy.UUCP>, mcpherso@msudoc.ee.mich-state.edu (Mike McPherson) says: > Xref: wright comp.unix.wizards:5993 comp.os.vms:5749 > > Can we *please* stop the UNIX vs. VMS argument. We have both, we like > both. Perhaps I had better make my position clear, Mike. _We_ also have both Unix and VMS. I like both, and think each has its strengths and weaknesses, and areas of appropriate application. I happen to prefer Unix over anything I've ever used before since I started programming around 1970 (DOS/VS, OS/{MFT,MVT,SVS,MVS} on the IBM mainframe side, VMS since 2.x on the VAX side, INTERCOM/SCOPE on CDC Cybers, RSX and RT-11 on PDP-11s. CP/M in the Z80/S-100 days, CP/M-68K, MS/DOS, etc. as well as lots of Unixes), but that is a personal preference, as in politics, sex and religion, and arguments about any of these often generates more heat than light. I push Unix not for religious reasons but for purely economic ones. I am responsible for the deployment of systems and networks and for the management of what is arguably the largest computer center in our University (a matter of some dispute). I simply can not afford to deploy VAXen. I think VAXen are well designed, reliable machines. But I know, based on the numbers I see on the paperwork that crosses my desk, that I can provide more cost-effective computing by buying machines from Sun, Encore, NCR, H-P, what-have-you, than I can from DEC (or IBM for that matter). When I say "cost effective", I'm taking more than just the initial capital investment into account. It is my job to worry about retraining, reliability, power requirements, air conditioning requirements, compatibility, interoperability, maintenance, availability, expandability, preservation of existing investment, and a whole host of other "-ilities". Most of all, I worry about labor costs, because they are the highest of any of the costs I worry about: [1] the cost of my systems staff supporting a wide variety of machines in what is necessarily a multi-vendor environment, and [2] the cost of retraining users. "Users" includes graduate students who must be productive, because they're working on grant-funded projects with deadlines; and faculty researchers who we cannot afford to pay $40K-$70K a year to learn a new operating system and a new editor every time we deploy a new engine. When I look at capital costs, I see a whole lotta engines that are more cost effective than VAXen. And when I look at labor costs, I see an operating system that runs on a wide variety of machines, minimizing my costs for retraining my labor force. And when I look very very carefully, I notice to my delight that these cost effective machines just happen to all run this same operating system. Amazing! I have two VAXen, a 750 and a 785. I could not do with out them. But I could not have afforded to buy them, either. I inherited each, because, bless its heart, our industry provides absolutely no meaningful resale value on these machines, so usually they're cheaper to keep than to sell. Maintenance costs may shortly make that strategy invalid as well; I am on the verge of showing it's cheaper to replace our VAXen with Suns configured as timesharing engines, than to pay the maintenance costs over the expected remaining live cycle of these machines. It is not a matter of religion, Mike. It's a matter of money. And although if I am to believe what I read lately, that there is more than a tenuous connection between religion and money, at least here at my University in my Department, there is a clear cut strategy for providing adequate computing resources. -- John Sloan Wright State University Research Center CSNET: jsloan@SPOTS.Wright.Edu 3171 Research Blvd., Kettering, OH 45420 UUCP: ...!cbosgd!wright!jsloan (513) 259-1384 (513) 873-2491 Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.