Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!ncc!alberta!sask!lowey
From: lowey@sask.UUCP (Kevin Lowey)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Unix vs VMS
Message-ID: <1060@sask.UUCP>
Date: 11 Mar 88 06:58:35 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 181
Keywords: Unix, VMS

Hi,

  I've been following the discussion going on about Unix vs VMS.  I thought
I'd give a case history of our university from the point of view of a
User Support person.

  I received my Computer Science degree from the University I now work at.
All my Computer Science classes were done using the Unix operating system.
You might say I was weaned on Unix.  As a programmer, I liked it.  I could
get my work done quickly, and it had a lot of development tools.

  The computer science department here buy their own computers and put Unix
on them.  Originally they had PDP computers, now they use VAXes.  When I was
going to school, the rest of the academics used TOPS-20 on a DEC 2060 computer.
Most of the work on this computer consisted of statistical analysis using
SPSS and SAS.  There was also some documentation using Scribe, plus a number
of products developed in house in C and Fortran.  The C program was done
using the EUNICE unix emulator.

  As has been stated in other messages, IBM or VMS computers are better
suited to business applications than UNIX.  In our case, the administrative 
systems were VAX machines.

  About the time I graduated, three main things happened to computing on 
campus.  First, the separate Academic and Administrative computing departments
were combined to form one department.  Secondly, we had outgrown the 2060
and had to upgrade our machines.  Finally, we committed our selves to a
campus wide Ethernet computer network.

  First, lets look at the conversion.  We wanted something which would run
programs which the users already use, SAS, SPSSx, Fortran (ANSI-77).  We
also wanted to have a minimum of conversion problems.  Since we already had
a DEC 2060, and all the other computers on campus were DEC, it was obvious we
wouldn't buy IBM with its non standard EBCDIC, Terminal protocols, and other
headaches.  

  Since our logical choice was VAX, we had to decide between UNIX and VMS.
We looked at statistical and other software of the same quality as that on
the 2060, and found that UNIX lacked the support of the commercial software
companies.  There was no SAS, SPSS, etc. for UNIX.  This limited our only
logical choice to VMS.

  Any change of computer systems is traumatic for a user.  I was working for
User Support when the change took place.  Our job was MUCH simpler when most
of the packages were the same.  A lot of stuff needed no conversion.  Since
VMS languages all follow the ANSI standards, with DEC extensions, most 
programs converted with little problem.  Not only did the source code work
with only minor modifications, BUT THE LIBRARIES WERE STILL THERE.  Things
like IMSL were still available to people.  I'd have probably gone nuts if
I had to hand-hold the users through a conversion to a UNIX system.

  By the way, the user's had their fortran programs etc. converted fine.
The conversion was three years ago, and we are still converting the Eunice C
programs we wrote.  So much for the "portability" of C.  (I have to
admit the programmer used a lot of "eunice" tricks, then left the university
so this comparison might not be fair).

  Once users got their stuff transfered onto the system, they had to use it.
It has been argued that Unix has more cheap documentation available.  My 
reply to that is the casual user of unix needs more than documentation.
How many profs do you know who read manuals :-).  All I know is "DIRECTORY"
makes a lot more sense to new users than "ls" (not "LS", thats different).
Sure, you can get windowed shells etc, but what's the overhead for that?

  What we do is have a COMPLETE set of manuals for VMS and all software on the
system in our User Support Center, which we lend to people when they need
it.  We take their staff or student card as collateral, so they HAVE to get
it back, otherwise they can't get into the campus pub :-)  The point is 
you don't NEED to have all the VMS manuals, (which are more complete than 
the UNIX ones are, in my opinion).  What does the SPSS user want with the 
run-time-library manual for instance.  Programmers may need all the manuals,
but casual users only need an Introduction to VAX manual.

  Now lets look at networking.  Unix runs on a lot of machines. Fine, so does
VMS.  It might not be as many as UNIX, but in the real business world, 
more VMS machines are there than UNIX machines.  Don't be put off by the
word "Business".  A lot of the applications used in Business (Statistics,
Presentation Graphics, database, word processing) also apply to academics.
A lot of companies develop their software for IBM and VMS.  Unix seems left
out somehow.

  All our VAXes (administrative and academic) are connected via DECnet. I 
can copy files easily, using the regular VMS copy command, between all these
machines.  All I have to do is add the machine name in front, and supply
a username and a password.  In addition, I have a microcomputer on my desk
which is connected via Ethernet to TWO VAX 8650 computers, and TWO laser
printers, one an LN03+ and the other a Postscript printer.  My total PC online
storage is over 100MB.  This all can be accessed either as MS-DOS files from
my microcomputer, or from the VAX as VMS files.

  If I want to do data analysis, I can use Lotus 1-2-3 to enter my data on 
the micro, and save the data as an ASCII file.  I can then log into the vax,
and the file is already there.  No messing with Kermit, etc.  I can then
run SAS or whatever to produce my results, edit those results into my 
WordPerfect on the microcomputer (again without transferring files), and 
print this on a laser printer which could be shared with everyone else on
campus if we wished.  Unix may have these capabilities, but I don't think 
they are as seamless as DECNET.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

  As for wide area networks, we are connected to BITNET.  We can use the
JNET software to send files "/VMSDUMP" to other VMS BITNET sites.  This
means the files are transfered as binary files, WITH ALL THE FILE 
ATTRIBUTES INTACT.  Doing this is almost as easy as using the COPY command.
(By the way, BITNET is funded by IBM, not DEC).  Bitnet also has gateways
available to most other networks, such as ARPA, UUCP, EDUNET, and others.
File transfer to these networks has to be done with uuencoded mail files,
but we can't have everything :-)

  So lets look at what we got by going to VMS instead of UNIX.  3 years ago
before the change, we had three seperate operating systems.  TOPS-20, VMS,
and UNIX.  Now we have two, UNIX and VMS.  The scientific research facilites,
such as the linear accelerator, and the Computer Science department use
UNIX because their users are all well versed in computers, and UNIX has
all the required tools for their applications.  
         
  For the casual statistics or word processing user however, the VMS machines
are used.  The reasons are VMS applications are more suitable to their needs,
and the VMS utilities are easier to use (tell me VMS mail isn't nicer than UNIX
mail, or that VMS command line editing isn't better than Unix History)
    
  In addition our networking capabilities have added new dimensions to campus
computing unheard of 3 years ago.  The micro example above, for instance.
Another example is the locally developed computer marking program and class
managment programs.  The professors for each class using the computers can
request that class lists for their class be put into their instructor account
directly from the university student records.  If a student drops from a
class, or a new one is added to the class, this is automatically reflected in
the instructors examination database.  In addition, accounts for the students
are automatically created or deleted based on the official class lists on the
administration machines.  The data isn't at risk, because it is stored on
different machines whos access is controlled by the network software.  This
degree of integration between administrative and academic applications is
not as easy using Unix (as far as I know).

  In conclusion, I feel that UNIX systems are fine for programmers and other
people who are used to computers, and do their own programming for
specialized tasks.  

  For the average humanities grad student who wishes to
do statistics for a thesis, unix would be too intimidating to learn.  My
job in User Support would be MUCH harder.  (or perhaps easier because less
people would use the computers :-).  MOST of the people using the computers
at our university fall into the second category.  Combine this with the
integration obtained through the campus ethernet to our Admin computers, and
the use of ANSI standards wherever possible in VMS (ANSI tapes, ANSI languages
with extensions, ANSI communications, ASCII text, ...) users can have a
powerful working environment which is easy to use, and easy to transport
to other sites (by using the Standards).

  As for business uses.  VMS is again superior to UNIX, not for any 
technical reasons, but because VMS and IBM are what the vendors are writing
software for.  

  If you buy IBM, you are definitely locked into one vendor.  VAX/VMS is 
one vendor as well, but not as much as IBM.  You can hook non-DEC devices
to DEC computers a lot easier than to IBM, and the transfer of information
among different sites is much easier if you don't have to worry about 
EBCDIC to ASCII translations.  To get the degree if integration obtained
in VMS, some hardware dependance is to be expected (ANSI terminals for
instance, again another standard).  As for the costs, I agree they are high,
but often University prices are more reasonable.  

  Technically, Unix might be a better operating system, but for 75% of your
users, the ones who only want to use a computer for their thesis statistics,
or use it occasionally to send mail on networks, or use it to do occasional
word processing, UNIX is just too hard to use.  I think any costs you save
in equipment and software in using unix will be eaten up quickly by your
additions to your User Support staff.
 
  I agree that VMS and DEC isn't perfect, but neither is IBM or UNIX.  Each
is suited to different needs.  I think VMS is the best "middle ground" between
the business world of IBM, and the programming / technical world of UNIX.  This
middle ground is what you need in a general purpose academic computer system.
______________________________________________________________________________
| Kevin Lowey                    |The above is the personal opinion of Kevin |
| University of Saskatchewan     |Lowey.  It does not reflect the position of|
| Computing Services             |the University of Saskatchewan in any way. |
| SaskTel: (306) 966-4826        |                                           |
| Bitnet:LOWEY@SASK. (preferred) |I am in no way affiliated with any of the  |
| UUCP:    ihnp4!sask!lowey.uucp |above mentioned companies other than U of S|
|________________________________|___________________________________________|