Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!nuchat!peter
From: peter@nuchat.UUCP (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Anyone seen a good Amiga Pascal lately ?  Why not Modula-2?
Message-ID: <765@nuchat.UUCP>
Date: 10 Mar 88 02:55:47 GMT
References: <2605@crash.cts.com> <735@nuchat.UUCP> <813@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU>
Organization: Public Access - Houston, Tx
Lines: 82

In article <813@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU>, cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) writes:
>   Seems like first impressions have lasting consequences on
> programmers...

I don't know why you'd say that. My first modern language was Pascal,
and I spent months making a nuisance of myself at Berkeley telling all
who tried to tell me that 'C' had any advantages that 'C' was a horrid
kludge.

>   Peter, I'm curious, how would one implement a nested WITH in C?

You mean:
	WITH shrimpboat DO
	  WITH launchdate DO
	    mm := 9;
	    ...
	  END (* with launchdate *);
	END (* with shrimpboat *);

I'd do this:
	{ register struct trawler *t = shrimpboat;
		{ register struct date *d = t->launchdate;
			d->mm = 9;
			...
		}
	}

Or this:

#	define T shrimpboat
#		define D T.launchdate
			D.mm = 9;
#		undef D
#	undef T
	
WITH is just a notational convenience. The implication in the reference I'm
using is that the actual implementation is more likely to be like my first
alternative ("Improved efficiency results from this rule, because the compiler
need only evaluate the WITH variable once.")

>   Oh, and another thing, let's say , for the sake of argument, that C
> in it's present state, is superior to all other languages

I never said this, but go on.

> (including M2), as a language definition.  Enter Joe Blow, who can
> produce 10000 lines of code in TS 27 (Taco Sauce 27, a fictitious
> language), the worst language definition.

So let him use it. I'm not suggesting that people change from Modula to
C, or from Pascal to C. I'm just explaining why I like 'C'.

> Joe's friends persuaded
> him to try C. It took him twice as long to produce the same code,
> which doesn't run any faster.

That's two unjustified assumptions in one sentence.

>   Now, should we force Joe to use C anyway?

Of course not.

> The point is, it's
> pointerless to try to typecast a hardcore C programmer into M2 or
> any other language.  So use what works best for you own personal
> brain (of course, you will!).  

(*f+ (turn on flamethrower) *)
I think you have quite a bit of gall to post a series of messages that
look a lot like you're trying to convert me to Modula, and then act as if
I'm the one doing the preaching. In fact, this whole discussion (if I recall
correctly) started when I championed someone else's Modula compiler. Really
the mark of a C bigot, eh?
(*f-*)

>   Is *anyone* going to be persuaded to switch languages?

Nor, it appears, compilers.
-- 
-- a clone of Peter (have you hugged your wolf today) da Silva  `-_-'
-- normally  ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter                U
-- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions... these are *values*.