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From: brianb@bucsb.UUCP (Brian Bresnahan)
Newsgroups: alt.flame,comp.sys.amiga,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.apple,comp.sys.atari.8bit,comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: pirating, etc.
Message-ID: <1513@bucsb.UUCP>
Date: 17 Mar 88 18:40:37 GMT
References: <800@nuchat.UUCP>
Reply-To: brianb@bucsb.bu.edu (Brian Bresnahan)
Followup-To: alt.flame.
Distribution: na
Organization: Boston Univ Comp. Sci.
Lines: 117
Keywords: FLAME

******* FLAME ALERT *******

	I hope what you were saying was a joke, if it was you can take this
followup in fun.  If you really meant what you said be ready for some
heat.

	I will take the issue's presented by this being, one a time 
with a summary at the end.
 
In article <800@nuchat.UUCP> phillip@nuchat.UUCP (Phillip Keen) writes:
>
>I've been noticing talk about pirated software lately over the net.  Well,
>I think it shouldn't exist, but it's something we've had for a very long time.
>Well, I know it's very easy to pirate software.  With computers that can do
>multi-processing or multi-tasking it's very easy to do it because someone can
>load up something that is playing music and then load up a copy program and
>copy illegal programs.  Anyways, what I think stores should do, is not let
>the lookers use the computers themselves, unless the store owners and salesmen
>know that person very very good.  This would prevent much of the pirating that
>is going on right now. 
	
	You would expect people to go into a store and spent their money
on software without being able to try it themselves.  The only reason I 
use computer stores is the fact that I can try the software out, otherwise
I would use mail order.  Most salepersons are not knowledgeable in all the 
packages that the store carries and they are not going to provide you with
a sufficient demonstration.  When I am making a purchase decision on software
weather it is a game or an application, I expect to be able to sit down and
use this software, to see if I like it.  I want to get an idea how long it
take for commands to execute, how easy it is for me to use and to try some of
the features that I am particularly interested in.  I would never buy from a 
store that says, "You can't try it out, but I will show it to you".  Maybe you
would spent $300 without being able to try out a peice of software, but I 
most certainly would not.


>                         I also think they should have signs on their doors
>or something saying "We will take up your disks that you bring in here unless
>you've got a receipt from us with you."  Therefore, people would hopefully
>not bring in their disks.

	First, why are people bringing the disks into the store in the first
place, I don't think any store owner is stupid enough to not realize that
someone is sitting there copying the software.  If a person is bringing
disks to the store, they probably are bringing them so they can test out
the compatability of their data on the new software, and where those disk
were purchased should have no bearing on the right to use them.  I don't
know where you shop for software, but people just don't open up the boxes
and start using the machines, store have their own open copies which they
let people use with supervision(not usually to stop them from stealing the
software, but to make the sale, WHAT AN INTERESTING CONCEPT). 

>                           About pirating over the modem.  Well, that is a
>case that we the users don't have any control over, and if we did, because
>we don't know who's pirating everyone would have to take the consequences.  I
>hope that it's something that won't keep us good guys (like me) who don't
>pirate out of BBSes if the government or anyone makes a law or a rule saying
>that we cannot use our modems. 

	We do have control over this area, if you are on a BBS and you 
see a copyrighted piece of software on it, call the publisher and inform
them.   If you think it might be by mistake, leave a note to the sysop and
inform him that you think some programs on his system are there illegally.
The way to combat this area of piracy is to report the crime when you see it.
The software companies and the government are going after these pirate BBS's
and will be grateful for your cooperation.  I am the sysop of a Bulletin Board
and I am very careful to check what is uploaded to my system is public domain,
I also do not allow dicussion of piracy on my system.

>                              I think one way that we could get the pirating
>issue to go over is by not allowing anyone below age 35 buy a modem.  The
>reason I say such a high age is I know some people between 20 and 35 that
>still pirate.  See, most of the piraters out there are kids between the
>ages of 15 to 20.  Anyways, thanks for the attention, and I just wanted to
>give my little soapbox on pirating.   Phillip Keen

	Okay moron, that's it, where do you get off saying that people under
35 pirate more than those over, if it is true, it is most likely due to the
fact that more people under 35 use personal computers and you would probably
find that the same percentage of users in each age group pirate.  You claim
that most of the pirates are between the ages of 15 and 20, while the number
of people in this group who steal software is probably large, the value of 
what they steal is relatively low( mostly games that retail for around $40
and have no value after about a year).  Where the middle age business person
is taking home thousands of dollars worth of software from his workplace to
use on his home machine, who is the bigger thief here.  I know the retail
value does not apply here, but the kid is committing a misdemenor when he
steals Zork(n1), but Mr. Executive is a felon when he takes home a copy 
of 1-2-3(n2).  They are both stealing, but all you ever hear small minded
people like you talk about are those teenagers.  I am 22 and I don't steal
software (although I probably am capable of it), where would you classify
me sir.
	As for the feasiblilty of your idea, it is also absurd.  Would you
make it illegal for anyone under 35 to own a modem or just purchase one, would
you make people register their modems like handguns(whach out BOB, I think he
has a smartmodem ???).  How would you keep people under 35 from using modems, 
DATA POLICE.  It is just so ridiculus !!!!
	Your foolish system would not allow students to have modem so they
could access school computers or on-line data services.  You would be 
resticting the rights of people under 35 to get the information that is
available on these services.

	As for your little soapbox, I hope you slip and fall off !!!

I think that I have said enough for now, I anticipate that others will also
be nailing your small brian to a wall, so If I missed anything hold on.

(n1) Zork is a trademark of Infocom Inc.
(n2) 1-2-3 is a trademark if Lotus Development corp.

PLEASE DIRECT ALL FUTURE COMMENT TO alt.flame
________________
All opinions expressed above are my own and no other entity need take
responsibilty for them.

Brian Bresnahan
brianb@bucsb.bu.edu or
engf0ic@BOSTONU.BITNET