Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!psuvax1!schwartz
From: schwartz@psuvax1.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: VMS, UNIX, etc.
Message-ID: <3359@psuvax1.psu.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 88 19:39:57 GMT
References: <397@lscvax.UUCP>
Reply-To: schwartz@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz)
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 66
Keywords: IBM (Oooo) VAX speed, etc
Summary: IBM he says....

In article <397@lscvax.UUCP> ram@lscvax.UUCP (Ric Messier) writes:
>Just for the sheer enjoyment of starting another argument, I thought I
>might throw my two cents worth in. 

An offer we can't refuse. :-) :-)

>seem to have their uses, I haven't seen one yet that can run faster than
>and IBM (even if the IBM had 300 logins and the VAXen were running
>single user). 

Well, IBM makes much larger machines than DEC.  When the 3090 around
here has 300 users on it, I laugh all the way to the nearest Sun.

>but I will also state that I haven't seen a more user-friendly system
>that still manages to be great for experts as well than VM/CMS. 

My first impression of VM/CMS (and I still hold this impression) is
that it's the biggest and best implementation of CP/M ever. :-)
Do you really like not having subdirectories, and having your environment
pretend to be a small machine with a card reader, paper punch,
and a few "minidisks"?

> To me at least, an IBM (4341, 3081,
>3090, etc) running VM/CMS blows away any of Digital's machines, running
>ANY operating system.

>Now, you can all go to your corners and start flaming me if you like but
>I haven't seen anything in UNIX yet (particularly its speed) that would
>convert me.

Try a Sun4.  In terms of interactive response (roughly, how long it
takes the machine to respond to a carrage return) the Sun4 blows
an IBM 3090/200 away.  


> As for its documentation, which I have seen others talk
>about, it is absolutely ATROCIOUS. And there is almost NO online help,
>unlike IBM's FULL-SCREEN online help about anything you could possibly
>need to know.

Really?  At PSU the computer center felt the need to rewrite almost
all of the IBM help screens to make them usable.  

FULL-SCREEN?  What kind of output does unix or vms help give you?
(Hmmm, looks like a full screen to me :-)
At least under unix, when you hit return at the bottom line the screen
SCROLLS, rather than sending the cursor to the top for another go round.

CMS: Now which function key is it to get the next screen?  F8?  Gads, I'm
on an HDS rather than a 3270, so it's...ummm....f10! no... uh...

> As of yet, I haven't had much chance to play with anything
>serious in the way of scripts or command languages on Unix or VMS but I
>can tell you that what I have seen endears me even more to IBM's Rexx.

Rexx is not bad.  Try ksh and get back to us.

>One last thought before I go. A friend of mine works for AT&T as a
>programmer and he is using a lot of AT&T 3B machines running Unix and HE
>still would take VM/CMS anyday of the week. Perhaps if there was a
>machine that was sufficiently fast to handle Unix, I would think about
>switching my alignment, but I doubt it. Too many other problems with it
>that I see.

3B?  How about, say, Amdahl?  Or Cray?  They make mainframe-and-bigger
machines, and they run unix.