Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!cmcl2!nrl-cmf!ames!sunybcs!bingvaxu!vu0112
From: vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Animal Thought (was Re: language, thought, and culture)
Message-ID: <927@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu>
Date: 12 Mar 88 01:14:49 GMT
References: <44@gollum.Columbia.NCR.COM> <2894@pbhyf.UUCP> <888@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu> <326@thirdi.UUCP> <899@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu> <5776@dhw68k.cts.com> <5378@swan.ulowell.edu> <912@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu> <45134@sun.uucp>
Reply-To: vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn)
Organization: SUNY Binghamton, NY
Lines: 40
Keywords: thought modalities

In article <45134@sun.uucp> randolph@sun.UUCP (Randolph Fritz) writes:
>Cats sometimes move their eyes rapidly while sleeping.  The motions are similar
>to the rapid eye motions (REM) of a human dreamer; cats probably dream.
>Apparently cats can operate on representations not physically present . . .
>don't know about gorillas, though.

I believe that it is quite clear that cats and other animals dream.  But
I wouldn't want to call dreaming a kind of thinking.  The difference is
that dreams are uncontrolled.  In other words, I don't think you can say
that the dreamer is operating on the dream images (representations).  . 
.more like the dreamer's brain (as a part of the dreamer), or a *part*
of the dreamer's brain (i.e.  the "dream center," "libmic system" (BTW,
what is the limbic system?)) is operating on them.  Uh oh, I see an
argument about personal identity coming on. . .

>Conversely, many humans engaging in those activities called "thinking" move
>through an imagined environment.  

Yes, this is my contention.

>Human activity and animal activity is, in
>this way, quite similar.  

But I would deny that this follows, since I don't think dreaming is
thinking. 

>Is there a qualitative difference?  

I believe there is, which is the ability to control the generation and
manipulation of representations.  Symbolic activity is evidence of this
ability, and to the extent that we can teach animals to talk (speak,
sign) perhaps we can teach them to think (?).  Please note that my
theory leaves the point of animal and machine intelligence as empirical
points, offering no theoretical solution. 

O---------------------------------------------------------------------->
| Cliff Joslyn, Professional Cybernetician 
| Systems Science Department, SUNY Binghamton, New York, but my opinions
| vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu
V All the world is biscuit shaped. . .