Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!purdue!tlh
From: tlh@cs.purdue.EDU (Thomas L. Hausmann)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: In defence of the K-12 school system
Message-ID: <3635@medusa.cs.purdue.edu>
Date: 25 Mar 88 16:09:11 GMT
References: <3435@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> <1005@aucs.UUCP>
Sender: news@cs.purdue.EDU
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University
Lines: 74
Keywords: mandatory math

In article <1005@aucs.UUCP>, 870158a@aucs.UUCP (Benjamin Armstrong) writes:
>In article <3435@medusa.cs.purdue.edu>, tlh@cs.purdue.EDU (Thomas L. Hausmann) writes:
>>Old ideas include: making certain math courses required through grade 10
>>as opposed to grade 8, passing standard tests prior to graduation,  requiring
>>more math courses for ed majors, etc.
> The old ideas don't sit very well with me.  By grade eight most of the damage
> is already done.  

As it has been discussed before...you are right in saying that most damage has
been done by grade 8.  That is what I meant by more math courses for education
majors.  Educators that are math-phobic in our elementary schools have the 
potential for great harm.

> ...  But now, in my second year
> of an Honours Computer Science degree, I am looking for ways to avoid
> taking Calculus because I'm afraid I will not do well enough in it for
> an Honours program.

Why should you be avoiding a course (or course sequence) that would enable you
to become a better computer scientist?  Math is very important throughout
a CS major.  Which is why I double majored.  In graduate school, a very
significant portion of my courses rely on my math background, not to mention
research.

> Most of my friends who took honours level science courses in high school found
> them under-stimulating.  Making math mandatory in high school will not help
> matters.  

I disagree.  In my elementary years, my class always had the same teacher. (A 
different one each year.)  The difference in our educations began in later
junior high when some students were no longer taking math courses.  And when
we bacame seniors, it was decided that *all* students would have at least one 
course in grades 9-12.  So "consumer math" was invented and the students
who had not taken math for a few years had to struggle.

> 
> Some of my friends who are now in the arts tell me that they cannot multiply
> fractions or solve algebraic problems and also, not surprisingly, that
> they hate and/or fear mathematics.  Why?  These are not stupid people.  How
> many people go through life believing themselves to be "dumb" when it comes to
> the sciences when actually they are victims of poor quality education?

Or are victims of their own fear of failing.  You cannot always attribute
ignorance to "poor quality education"  If your friends did not take higher
math courses where skills with fractions become commonly used, then it is 
their own fault for not taking those courses.

> I challenge the whole system.  People learn in different ways at different
> rates, yet I have found our schools to be inflexible, not providing stimulating
> material for students who excel, and not finding effective motivators for those
> who take longer either.  When will we see it begin to happen?


When someone has a better idea (that works...)


> 
> ... but maybe what we really need is
> to find new ways of teaching math and the sciences which exploit our new
> tools more effectively ...

Amen.

>  Ben Armstrong 

-Tom

      .^.^.        Tom Hausmann 
     . O O .       tlh@mordred.cs.purdue.edu    ( ARPA )
      . v .        ...!purdue!tlh   ( UUCP  )
     / | | \
     ./   \.       "Whooo do ya think you're foolin' "
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