Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!m2c!ulowell!eagle!arosen
From: arosen@eagle.ulowell.edu (MFHorn)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Holy Wars
Message-ID: <5638@swan.ulowell.edu>
Date: 23 Mar 88 06:48:53 GMT
Sender: news@swan.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: arosen@hawk.ulowell.edu (MFHorn)
Organization: University of Lowell, CS Dept.
Lines: 66

My $.07 [inflation]:

To the people crying "STOP THIS TRASH!", that's what kill files are for!
And, generally, this type of war is healthy.  It is the best to find out
what people find lacking in each OS, what they like most about an OS, etc.

Onto other miscellaneous flames and other drivel...

[rrk@byuvax.bitnet writes]
> From what I have seen of UNIX running on a VAX, it consumes much more system
> overhead than VMS

What kind of tests, if any, have you done?  Admittedly, I haven't done any,
but Unix is known for it's compact, elegant, _efficient_ kernel.

> VMS is more secure by far than UNIX.  ...VMS, unlike UNIX
> is presumed to be totally secure.

*NO* multi-user system is totally secure!  I broke into a VMS Vax (V4.5) in
seconds.  How?  Someone typed in a priveleged password nice and slow while I
was watching.  The biggest security hole in most systems is the manager(s).

> All the UUCP and usenet I've ever seen has been on a VMS VAX.

Then, logically, you've never seen Unix, since all Unixes have UUCP.
All the *Unix* to *Unix* CoPy has been on VMS?!?!

Someone said everything new and innovative is done under VMS.  If this is
so, then why has DEC said they're going to give equal support to VMS and
Ultrix?  And why is Data General moving towards DG/UX as their main OS
instead of their propietary AOS (I might be wrong about this, I heard it as
a rumor)?  And why are so many newer companies using Unix exclusively, like
Sequent and Sun?  Is it a coincidence that they're also quite successful?

As far as user interfaces go, sure VMS' DCL is easier to learn.  But once
either is learned, it doesn't matter much how easy it was to learn it.
Just on what the user prefers, and on what you can do with it.  I prefer
typing "rm" over "del" and "chmod" over "set file/prot", simply because I
have to type fewer characters (aliases/symbols aside).  And "DCL is more
powerful" is pretty moot, since tcsh (much more powerful than DCL or C-shell)
is PD, and (PD) GNU's 'M-x shell' both make better CLIs.  Oh yeah, M-x shell
doesn't work in GNU under VMS.  Sorry.

Personally, I can think of no application for which I would use VMS and not
Unix, except maybe administrating a machine, and then it depends on the
environment.  Job control, redirection, pipes, are just _too_ powerful to do
without.  This does not include, for example, spreadsheet work, where I'd
take Lotus on VMS over PD VisiCalc on Unix.  That's a matter of which
spreadsheet [application program] is better, not which OS.

Access to system services in VMS is pretty bogus; there's a seperate manual
just on what they do, and it doesn't even say how to use them in a given
language.  Unix?  The system calls are function calls.  Simple enough?

And, monocase is intolerable.  So is forcing every file name to have at
least one "." in it.  So is needing to set up a symbol to pass command line
parameters to a C program.  So is limiting command history to 20.  So is
not having any games :-)  Etc, etc.

But, this is getting back to the "Each OS is good for what it's good for"
argument.  The best argument so far.

Andy Rosen           | arosen@hawk.ulowell.edu | "I got this guitar and I
ULowell, Box #3031   | ulowell!arosen          |  learned how to make it
Lowell, Ma 01854     |                         |  talk" -Thunder Road
                   RD in '88 - The way it should be