Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!lll-winken!lll-lcc!ames!nrl-cmf!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ut-sally!utah-cs!utah-gr!uplherc!sp7040!wsccs!terry
From: terry@wsccs.UUCP (terry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Autoconfig for expansions
Message-ID: <322@wsccs.UUCP>
Date: 15 Mar 88 05:54:09 GMT
References: <1408@sugar.UUCP> <507@xicom.UUCP> <2507@tekig4.TEK.COM> <3448@cbmvax.UUCP>
Lines: 145
Keywords: autoconfig hobby
Summary: Nope.

In article <3448@cbmvax.UUCP>, andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes:
} In article <257@wsccs.UUCP> I write:
} >	2) A small company can not afford to go out and blow 3 or 4
} >	   motherboards making a hard-drive interface.  Commodore is
} >	   not giving the kind of support Apple gives to it's developers,
} >	   hardware _and_ software.
} We don't ask for a business plan before we sign you up to a
} developer program either :-)

	Better to post a business plan (you had better have one anyway, if you
intend to stay in business) than to not get hardware or software support.

} >	3) A large company is not willing to enter what is basically a
} >	   small marketplace.  Hence no Western-Digital controllers for
} >	   the Amiga.
} >	4) A large company is not willing to invest time/money into
} >	   providing software for a product which is not advertized.
} Possibly you missed the ads in Time, and other mags ?  Or the ones
} on TV about the Amiga ?

	That answers point #4.  What about point #3?  Anyway, that is _not_
an answer.  I am the type of person who buys an Amiga.  I did not see the ads.
While it would be idiotic to try to point to this and say "the type of person
who buys an Amiga is not seeing the ads", I think the large number of postings
by people who already own an Amiga, and referring to CLtd not advertising, are
a good indication that this is true.

} >	   why a programmer-type at Micro-soft told me they hadn't ported
} >	   Xenix... no built-in market/advertising channels.
} 
} This sounds unlikely as a reason, somehow.  Perhaps there were other
} factors ?

	You have truncated me slightly out of context, here, but I will
answer anyway:  No, there were not other reasons.  The reason a software vendor
advertises with a picture of a piece of equipment, rather that just a screen
shot, is that it buys him (or is perceived to buy him) recognition and a
closer look via the old "hey! that's _my_ machine, there!"  If the machine is
not recognizeable, the software certainly won't be.  If there were other
factors, they would probably be those related to support of the product by
Commodore, or support for producing the product in the first place.  In general
it seems that Microsoft likes to reach an OEM agreement; Consider the Tandy
Xenix's and SCO Xenix, both of which are OEM'ed versions of Microsoft Xenix
for those boxes, but also both of which far out-sell Microsoft's entry into
the same markets.  Look at DOS!  Would Commodore be willing to sell/support
Xenixfor the Amiga?  Would people trust it [the Xenix] if they did?

} >occur to me that a computer-readable hard-drive schematic posted here would
} >encourage a small company to offer a fairly cheap hard-drive interface (I
} >think almost zero developement cost would be an incentive for lower prices).
} >
} >	For the touted ease with which you purported do these things, I have
} >yet to recognize your name from and ad for a reasonably priced anything.  If
} >"it all worked the first time" is a correct statement, either share your skill
} >or inform us of where to acquire some of our own... Commodore is certainly no
} >help.  It took some pirates to figure out 11k boot blocks, and they can
} >afford
} 
} 11K of data into the 1K a bootblock takes up ?  That is a trick!

	I will try to get a copy of one by Red Sector or The Kent Team or
SCA, and mail it to you, if you like.  Well?

} BTW, hasn't EA been using custom boot blocks for a long time ?

	Yes.  How large?

} >projects to market, if nothing else.  I think Commodore would enjoy finding
} >out that a 'simple' DMA interface is possible; they hem-and-haw every time I
} >ask them when theirs is due out.
} 
} The 2090 will ship in...pardon me ?  It shipped sometime last year ?
} Oh.  Never Mind...
} (Yes, the 2090 has a DMA interface, and has been out for awhile)

	Great.  Where are schematics which are released for anyone to
incorporte into their products so that my next 20 Meg drive & controller costs
me the same as what a 20 Meg drive costs an IBM owner?  How do I attach one
to my 500 or 1000?  IBM seems to make money by charging you for each power
cable... Commodore seems to make it by charging you a lot for what you get...
admittedly, the Amiga is a better machine, in most respects, than a PC, but
I can get a PC with 640K and a 20 Meg hard-drive and controller and an EGA and
a color monitor for less that $1100, 1/2 of what it would cost for an Amiga
with the same configuration.  Admittedly, I would be getting less for my money,
but _not_ $1100 less!

} >	Also:  Commodore, has it occured to you that Apple's success is due
} >primarily to their willingness to give hardware to schools?  I was told to
} >my face by one of your representatives that you don't give an educational
} >discount
} 
} Name names. None of this 'rep who wandered by , who we never heard
} of and you never did either'  If we have a rep giving out wrong
} info, please let us know!

	The regional sales rep. for the intermountain West, including Utah.  I
will *NOT* publicly post names, thereby opening myself up for a defamation of
character suit by airing his dirty laundry in public.  There are only 10 of
them, and only one of them works Utah... figure it out.

} (To explore educational discounts, things like that, have a
} rep from your school call the Commodore Educational Marketing dept
} at West Chester.  I think there is a program in place.)

	You are referencing something I said which you, again, truncated and
took out of context.  I was complaining that a _discount_ was *all* CLtd
would do... Apple _gives_ hardware and software to schools.  I am not
currently enrolled in any school; I get my news here.  I am speaking of
schools in general.  You seem to have switched from the subject to marketing
mode: "explore ... discounts".

} The only thing the new Kickstart rom gives you is the ability to boot
} from a ROM-Driver equipped device.

	So he was full of it.  There IS a new Kickstart.  Is it only ROM, or
will 1000 owners be able to use it too?  Is it going to cost the users of the
older stuff more than distribution costs, just like the last one (1.1 to 1.2)
did?

} >and that the 4 registered developers there would get their developer's
} >kit updates "real soon".
} I'm not sure what you mean by developer kit update.  I'm pretty
} sure he didn't either.

	Obviously, he didn't.  The "kit" of which I speak is simply some
documentation and software; basically, how to do a cold-capture of the machine,
and a number of other things Commodore hasn't seemed to make public.  Also,
some documentation specific to the 2000 and 500 and the 1.2 ROMs, which are NOT
documented in the Addison-Wesly(sp?) books.

}                         Registered developers have a phone number
} they can call to find out what happened to their orders, if something's wrong.

	They called, en-masse.  "We'll call you back" or "It's in the mail"
were the most common answers.  The regional rep. was asked about it at the
user-group meeting not to harrass him or to show his ignorance of a subject
which he should not be expected to be informed, but to talk to _someone_ with
some influence at CLtd, in hopes of getting their promised info/software.


| Terry Lambert           UUCP: ...{ decvax, ihnp4 }                          |
| @ Century Software       or : ...utah-cs!uplherc!sp7040!obie!wsccs!terry    |
| SLC, Utah                                                                   |
|                   These opinions are not my companies, but if you find them |
|                   useful, send a $20.00 donation to Brisbane Australia...   |
| 'There are monkey boys in the facility.  Do not be alarmed; you are secure' |