Xref: utzoo comp.sys.ibm.pc:13475 comp.sys.apple:4762 comp.sys.amiga:16416 comp.sys.atari.8bit:1335 comp.sys.atari.st:8467
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!bu-cs!bucsb!brianb
From: brianb@bucsb.UUCP (Brian Bresnahan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.apple,comp.sys.amiga,comp.sys.atari.8bit,comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: pirating, etc.
Message-ID: <1528@bucsb.UUCP>
Date: 21 Mar 88 19:50:52 GMT
References: <800@nuchat.UUCP> <1513@bucsb.UUCP> <2399@bsu-cs.UUCP>
Reply-To: brianb@bucsb.bu.edu (Brian Bresnahan)
Followup-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc
Distribution: na
Organization: Boston Univ Comp. Sci.
Lines: 103

(NOTE: I have received mail from people indicating that my last posting
       appeared in the news several times, I would like to track this problem
       down, if this happened at your site, please send me a message.

                                           Thank you,
                                           brianb@bucsb.bu.edu    )

In article <2399@bsu-cs.UUCP> cfchiesa@bsu-cs.UUCP (Christopher Chiesa) writes:
>>In article <1513@bucsb.UUCP>, brianb@bucsb.UUCP (Brian Bresnahan) writes:

>>>                         I also think they should have signs on their doors
>>>or something saying"We will take up your disks that you bring in here unless
>>>you've got a receipt from us with you."  Therefore, people would hopefully
>>>not bring in their disks.
>> 
>> 	First, why are people bringing the disks into the store in the first
>> place, I don't think any store owner is stupid enough to not realize that
>> someone is sitting there copying the software.  
>
>They may not be STUPID, per se (although the general level of knowledge dis-
>played in most computer stores {and there are a lot of them} that I've visited
>over, oh, the last ten-fifteen years, doesn't really deny the possibility),
>but most computer-store employees that I've ever seen are either ABSENT or
>OVERWORKED when customers are in the store. I have RARELY if EVER seen a store
>employee stand by a person who brings in their own disks, inserts them into 
>a computer on display, and does whatever he damn well pleases. In short, copy-
>ing CAN and DOES go on in stores -- I've seen it.
>
I think you may be missing my point here, if the store employees are for the
most part absent, then they would not be around to enfore the policy of not
bringing disks.  The proposed (although silly) policy would not work unless
carefully enforced, so in the stores you are speaking of they probably would
not even know if you brought in disks. So it really does not matter.
>> If a person is bringing
>> disks to the store, they probably are bringing them so they can test out
>> the compatability of their data on the new software, and where those disk
>
>Maybe SOME of them, even MOST of them, are, but there is a definite non-zero
>percentage of users who just walk in and copy stuff, and can get away with it
>because the clerk or attendant or whatever is too uninformed (I still refuse
>to say STUPID) to know what's going on.  The original comment about "...unless
>it is someone the store owners know very very well..." is RIDICULOUS -- half
>the time, THOSE "very very well"-known people are the very ones doing the 
>copying, under the auspices (or at least the deliberately blind eye) of the 
>store owners, with whom they are in cahoots.
>
The deliberately blind eye is a completly different matter, we all probably
know of stores that have more copies of XYZ than they ever bought and may 
even let friends copy,  but the policies propoesed by the original poster
will not affect this.  This was the key part of my argument, all of his
ideas were totally ineffective and would do more to hurt non-pirates than 
those who are stealing the software.

[NON DEBATED POINTS DELETED]
>
>And so it is with pirating, whether by disk copy, modem transfer, or secret
>meeting in back alley.  'Way back when next to nobody had computers, there was
>probably (I wasn't there :-)  ) next to no piracy because there wasn't much TO
>pirate.  Who'd take home a card deck of JCL statements, huh?  But out in the
>wide world, human nature was what it's always been; as soon as there were
>computers and software, that segment of the population who tape LPs from their
>friends, rather than buying them, print fake IDs to get into bars a few years
>early, sneak onto buses, etc., extended their activities to copying/pirating
>software, and presto! -here we are today, with the Federal government feeling 
>the need to intervene.
>
The problem I see with a defeatist attitude like this is that if it becomes
to prevalent, the federal government may be forced to step in and take 
action that non of will like.  We must try to police ourselves somewhat so
that we can aviod things like modem registration and federally issued ids for
our hardware.  The software publishing lobby is growing more powerful all
the time.  The major publishers can kill a new machine by saying that they 
will not publish for it. Excessive theft cuases the pubishers to rethink
the plans for conversion of software and coming out with new packages.  I
agree than many companies charge to much for their products, but the answer
is not to steal the product(Your use of it just increases its popularity), 
but to use another lower priced product.  This will send a stronger message
to the companies, when lower priced software sells well.

>I personally am of the opinion that this is all "human nature," and therefore
>unavoidable.  There doesn't seem to be any solution, even for the individual;
>does one wash one's hands of it, or try to fight it, or ignore it and fend for
>oneself in the cold cruel world?  Whatever you do, you'll spend a lot of time
>angry, and there'll be a lot of people against you.On the other hand, there'll
>also be a lot of people who AGREE with you, and you can derive some comfort 
>from sitting around b*tching to each other.  Personally, I plan to do a little
>of all of these!
While I agree the there will always be a portion of the market that will always
steal the software, not matter what price it is. I feel that a reduction in
price along with a better attitude by the publishers, could do a great deal
to reduce piracy.
>
>This should generate some interesting feedback; flame away!
>
>Chris Chiesa
>Senior, CS Dept.
>Ball State University
>Muncie, IN
> 
________________________________
Brian Bresnahan
brianb@bucsb.bu.edu
engf0ic@BOSTONU.BITNET