Xref: utzoo misc.legal:4318 comp.sys.ibm.pc:13598 comp.sys.mac:14362 comp.sys.apple:4837
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!cmcl2!esquire!sbb
From: sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten)
Newsgroups: misc.legal,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: Apple Challenges HP New Wave, MS-Windows, Potentially OS/2 PM
Message-ID: <371@esquire.UUCP>
Date: 23 Mar 88 17:43:50 GMT
References: <5480@well.UUCP> <4092@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> <1719@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu>
Reply-To: sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten)
Organization: DP&W, New York, NY
Lines: 72
Keywords: Apple HP Microsoft Windows OS/2 New Wave Frivolous Litigation

In article <1719@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> kolding@ji.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Eric Koldinger) writes:
>>I hope that Apple will win, and that Microsoft will have to stop Window (or
>>give it a total different interface), because to me Window is a violation
>>to Apple rights (did you look at the windows, scroll bars, "elevators"..., 
>>there is only a few differences, like the way you select an item from a 
>>menu (you don't press the mouse button down while dragging, but rather click 
>>again, which I must admit is better)).
>
>Actually, the suit wouldn't affect Windows, since Microsoft licensed the
>"look-and-feel" from Apple.  Apple claims now that some of the new Windows
>oriented programs go overboard on how closely they look like the Mac.

Actually, the suit is *specifically* aimed at Windows 2.03 (the
current version of Windows -- Windows/386 is just a clone of this, as
is the unreleased Presentation Manager).  From InfoWorld 3/21:

	"Apple asked the court to order the companies to stop copying,
	distribution, and sales of Microsoft Windows 2.03 and
	Hewlett-Packard's New Wave environment.  Apple also seeks
	damages and the impounding and destruction of the programs.

	The suit states that Windows 2.03 exceeds the 'limited license
	rights' granted to Microsoft by Apple in a 1985 licensing agreement.
	However, Apple did not seek any immediate court action, such as a
	preliminary injunction."  (p. 1)

Here's some more interesting stuff, also from the same issue:

	"IBM has stated in the past that its licensing agreement
	protected it from Apple 'look and feel' lawsuits.  'That licensing
	agreement applied to all derivative products [of Windows],' said
	Michael Maples, IBM's director of software strategy and business
	evaluation, at a February press briefing.

	But Apple alleges its 1985 license applies only to earlier
	version of Windows.  'We have the license with Microsoft, and it is
	not our belief that it extends to derivations of Windows, said
	spokeswoman Barbara Krause.  Apple's complaint states that Microsoft
	'facilitated' Hewlett-Packard's infringement 'by purporting to grant
	license rights.'"  (p. 85)

This makes some sense, especially since the original version of
Windows, covered under the 1985 license agreement, had only "tiled"
windows (i.e., windows that could not be dragged around, rearranged
and overlapped with the mouse).  The current incarnation of Windows,
which Microsoft claims is covered by the 1985 agreement since it was
derived from the original Windows, is substantially different, and
much more Mac-like.

I think Apple has a case.  It seems unlikely that the original license
agreement would cover any and all modifications to Windows (as long as
they were all "derived" from the original product).  Going from
"tiled" to overlapping windows is just one of the big changes
Microsoft made since 1985 -- I don't remember if there were any
others.

On the other hand, I also have to agree with Andy Hertzfeld, who said:

	"When someone rips off the ROM, I think they should be strung
	up by the thumbs.  But there's a difference between code and
	ideas.  To try and sue over something as nebulous as this is
	bizarre.  This makes the statement to the world that 'we can't
	come up with anything better, so we've got to protect what we
	did eight years ago.'  If something's a knockoff, they might
	have a case.  Windows isn't."  (p. 85)

Hope this rather lengthy summary sheds some light on just what's going on.

-- 
   Steve Baumgarten             | "New York... when civilization falls apart,
   Davis Polk & Wardwell        |  remember, we were way ahead of you."
   ...!cmcl2!esquire!sbb        |                           - David Letterman