Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!steinmetz!falstaff!vita
From: vita@falstaff.steinmetz (Mark F. Vita)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.misc
Subject: Re: UI expectations and firsts
Message-ID: <10083@steinmetz.steinmetz.ge.com>
Date: 24 Mar 88 14:01:23 GMT
References: <565@io.UUCP>
Sender: news@steinmetz.steinmetz.ge.com
Reply-To: desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP (Mark F. Vita)
Organization: General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY
Lines: 75

In article <565@io.UUCP> hds@io.UUCP (H.David Scarbro) writes:
>Interleaf developed it's window system, user interface and desktop
>manager before there was a Sun window system.  The first release of
>our software and the first release of SunWindows (with SunOs 2.0) were
>made at about the same time.

Well, it's been roughly two years since the introduction of SunView
and the publication of Sun's user interface guidelines. The excuse
that "our interface was invented before SunView" is starting to wear a
bit thin.  It seems to me that there has been ample opportunity to
bring the Interleaf interface up to standard.

>...
>It isn't unreasonable to expect an application (like Interleaf) to
>have the "look and feel" that is the norm for a particular
>workstation.  

Yes, this is precisely my point.

>With the exception of the Mac, user interface toolkits
>are just becoming a reality. It wasn't until SunView 1.0 that Sun had
>anything resembling one. 

Well, as I've pointed out, SunView has been a "reality" for quite some
time now.  Certainly enough time for some of your competitors to
develop entire applications which *do* conform to SunView.

>We have moved--and will continue to move--our
>interface towards the native interfaces of the various platforms on
>which we run.

I'm glad to hear it.

>If the Mac interface is the only acceptable interface, then much of
>what the author says follows. 

I don't recall ever saying that the Mac interface is the only
acceptable interface.  What exists of the SunView standard is
perfectly "acceptable".  However, I do not find the Interleaf
interface "acceptable".

>But it's possible, despite the author's
>implications, that there is merit to interfaces other than the Mac's.
>For example, consider two of Interleaf's UI firsts:
>
>The first is "intelligent defaulting" for hierarchical popup menus.
>...
>The second is using a timeout to eliminate displaying a popup. 
>...
>But, as the letter to which this is a reply makes clear, I guess you
>can't please everyone.

Again, I never said that any interface which is not a Mac interface is
without merit.  You have pointed out two nice features of the
Interleaf interface (in fact, without the first one, the interface
would be almost completely unbearable).  However, the existence of
such features does not do much to help the fact that the Interleaf
interface, overall, is extremely annoying and frustrating to use,
especially for someone who routinely uses other SunView applications.

Let me just clarify; my beef with the Interleaf interface isn't just
that it's nonstandard, but also that it's basically a terrible,
aggravating, nonintuitive interface.  It isn't just an issue as to
which mouse button brings up the menu.  The interface needs a complete
overhaul. 

>H. David Scarbro
>Interleaf, Inc., Ten Canal Park, Cambridge, MA 02141
>UUCP: ..!{sun!sunne,mit-eddie}!ileaf!hds

----
Mark Vita                              ARPA: vita@ge-crd.ARPA
General Electric Company               UUCP: vita@desdemona.steinmetz.UUCP
Corporate R & D                              vita@desdemona.steinmetz.ge.com
Schenectady, NY                              desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP