Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!pilchuck!ssc!apcisea!mcgp1!fst From: fst@mcgp1.UUCP (Skip Tavakkolian) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: IDRIS(R), STX-Windows(TM), for the ST/MEGA Message-ID: <1304@mcgp1.UUCP> Date: 8 Apr 88 10:18:30 GMT References: <1292@mcgp1.UUCP> <1656@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> Organization: Computer Tools Int'l Inc. Lines: 103 Keywords: IDRIS, X-Windows, ATARI ST/MEGA Summary: IDRIS Q & A In article <1656@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, tw@cscosl.ncsu.edu (Thomas Wolf) writes: > In article <1292@mcgp1.UUCP> fst@mcgp1.UUCP (Skip Tavakkolian) writes: >>For Your Information: >>IDRIS TARGET SYSTEM (TS) ........................................ $149.95 (US) >>STX-WINDOWS, When purchased with IDRIS TS or PS ................. $49.95 (US) > Could you use MW C to develop software under Idris? You could NOT use the version that runs under TOS. IDRIS completely replaces TOS. > > The prices quoted in the article seem to be extremely reasonable. However, > I wonder how worthwhile it would be to develop software for Idris. Although > it appears to be a fairly extensive Unix-like environment (correct?). IDRIS fully conforms to the IEEE POSIX(TM) standards. The Whitesmiths C compiler which accompanies the IDRIS PS system is a FULL ANSI C compiler. Whitesmiths Ltd, as an active members of both the POSIX and the ANSI C committees, follows the development of the purposed and the accepted standards of these committees closely. As a more down-to-earth example of how Unix(R)-like IDRIS is, suppose that you want to get a file-descriptor associated with controlling tty of your process, you do it just as you have done it under UNIX: int fd = open("/dev/tty", O_RDWR); /* O_RDWR == 2 */ IDRIS has many real-time extensions which are not available in Unix. The shared memory and message passing facilities are much more capable than those in SYS V. As a matter of fact our original sockets for the X-Windows were written using IDRIS's message passing system and timers. IDRIS uses the same patented ``set user id'' mechanism (invented by Ritchie of AT&T) as the ``real'' unices (with the permission of the AT&T). IDRIS binaries (use of special hardware notwithstanding) are compatible across machines of same processor. For example, programs generated on an OmniByte or HP 200 series, running IDRIS *WILL* run under ATARI ST running IDRIS, if no hardware specific features are used (i.e. the VDI routines in the ATARI) > I don't see a market (at least an ST/Mega market) for it. I suppose the > target market wasn't supposed to be the ST/Mega but any Unix-supporting > environment? ST/MEGA are very capable machines, and if marketed correctly will have a great future. We are working closely with a number of UNIX software vendors which are porting their software to IDRIS for ST/MEGA environment. The list is growing. These include compilers, word processors database management system, etc. Yes, IDRIS runs on a large number of computers with a variety of processors and architectures. Its first release was back in 1978 as the first V6 Unix compatible system. IDRIS is heavily used in many real-time, embedded applications. > Can you port source-level code written under Idris to other Unix machines > without modifications? Yes. Again if you are not using any hardware specific features. IDRIS for ST also has socket drivers, select and pty drivers which you do not find under SYS V. Whitesmiths C also has many hybrid library routines which you do not find in many UNIX environment, (i.e. onintr, match, amatch, pattern, getflags, getfiles, etc.) These extensions could spoil you, but if you stay generic you will not have any problems porting from IDRIS to UNIX. > > One last question: What system configuration does one need to have to use > Idris as a reasonable fast tool? I have a 20meg hd, but from what I hear > about other systems supporting flavors of Unix, the environment takes up lots > of room. This isn't really that an important a question, but I'm curious as > to Idris' size. IDRIS kernel can be as small as 135 KB (without socket, or pty drivers) or between 180 to 200 KB for a fully configured kernel. The number of system buffers could increase or decrease this size. IDRIS requires about 3 megabytes of disk for binaries. A minimum of 10 megabytes is recommended. You can run IDRIS comfortably on a 520ST (512KB) with two users. IDRIS *and* STX-Windows require about 1.5 megabytes of memory. > I also would appreciate more articles summarizing Idris. There was a writeup in the ``Product of the month'' column in the January 1988 issue of the UNIX World magazine. They have also done a product review which I believe is scheduled for April 1988 (this month). I will be writing up a more informative summary which I will post soon. > Atari's commitment to it, etc. > Tom Wolf > ARPA (I think): tw@cscosl.ncsu.edu > or wolf@csclea.ncsu.edu Computer Tools International Inc. or Whitesmiths LTD are not affiliated with the ATARI CORP. Computer Tools and Whitesmiths LTD have close working relation. The well being of IDRIS and Whitesmiths C compilers are in our best interest. I believe we can support our products better than anyone else. Skip Tavakkolian UUCP ...!uw-beaver!tikal!mcpg1!fst Computer Tools Int'l Inc. 14900 Interurban Ave. South, Suite 201 Seattle, WA 98168 (206)243-7060