Xref: utzoo comp.sys.apple:5252 comp.sys.ibm.pc:14243 comp.windows.misc:443 Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!steinmetz!macbeth!vita From: vita@macbeth.steinmetz (Mark F. Vita) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.windows.misc Subject: Re: Apple Lawsuit (was BOYCOTT APPLE, etc.) Message-ID: <10322@steinmetz.ge.com> Date: 8 Apr 88 12:54:02 GMT References: <292@unicom.UUCP> <663@csm9a.UUCP> <4283@dandelion.CI.COM> <13520@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> <453@xroads.UUCP> <394@upvax.UUCP> Sender: news@steinmetz.ge.com Reply-To: desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP (Mark F. Vita) Organization: General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY Lines: 106 Keywords: Microsoft, HP New Wave, Xerox, Lawsuit In article <394@upvax.UUCP> stevewa@upvax.UUCP (Steve Ward) writes: >In article <453@xroads.UUCP> tgm@xroads.UUCP (Sloan Tash) writes: >>Wouldn't that just be a shame (if Apple won..). The other companies would >>have >>to come up with their own ideas. Given that Apple did take the concept from >>Xerox, they developed it far beyond anything Xerox did. If the other >>companies >>want to take the same ideas that Apple started with, I don't think there >>would >>be a problem.. It's that they want to take Apple's ideas straight across. > >I disagree with your stand on a couple of points... > >1. Usually it's good that individual companies come up with alternative > solutions to a given "problem", but when you're trying to set up a > STANDARD it's not such a good idea. Remember what happened about 12 > years ago with VCRs? Two different companies came up with two different > solutions to the same problem, namely VHS and Betamax. The result? Yes, I agree that standards are a good thing. However, a company which INVENTS a standard should have some control over its usage. They could choose to let others use it for free, or they could choose to charge some kind of licensing fee. Using the VCR case, for example, I believe that companies manufacturing VHS machines *license* the technology from the inventor of the VHS standard (JVC?). > I don't think anyone wants to see the Beta/VHS war become the Apple/HP/ > Microsoft/IBM/Commodore/Atari/etc. war. Such a conflict can only divide > and distract the industry. Software developers would be stuck having to > completely re-write applications for each environment they want to market > to. No, a standard of some sort is needed. Yes. But if companies want to use the Apple standard, then they should license it from Apple. If not, they should develop their own standard. However, they should not just copy Apple's standard. A lot of people seem to think that the Apple interface IS the PARC interface, or that it is the only possible derivation of the PARC concepts. Not true. Take a look at, say, SunView. Here's a windowing system based on many of the same PARC principles as the Mac interface (i.e., bit-mapped display, windows, mouse), but whose interface is MUCH different from the Mac interface. Note that Apple is NOT suing Sun over SunView. Apple is not claiming a monopoly on PARC-style interfaces. >2. I, for one, think MS-Windows is BETTER than the Mac OS in several ways. Well, I think that some of your listed "improvements" are somewhat dubious...to wit: > There are more ways to do things than on the Mac (usually two ways with > the mouse, one with the keyboard) Hmm, well, the Mac generally supports two ways: one with the mouse, one with the keyboard. I don't know how much of a benefit a second mouse method would be. By the way, what is Window's other moue method? >It has better keyboard support Can you clarify what exactly you mean by "better keyboard support"? >I can buy whatever kind of pointing device I like and it will work Well, I don't know if this is entirely true. I doubt I could attach a Mac mouse to a Windows machine and have it work :-). Do you mean that there are a variety of pointing devices that can be attached? Well, this is true on the Mac as well. There's something called the Apple Desktop Bus, which is a standard which Mac input devices follow. There are gads of ADB devices around, from alternate mice, trak-balls, graphics tablets, etc, etc. >I can change the colors of the windows and what their borders look >like This exists on the Mac also. In fact, you can change the colors of just about every conceivable portion of the display, down to the color of the text in menus. > I can tell it > what programs I want running at power-up, etc. etc. This is true on the Mac also (the "Set Startup" command). > You see...Microsoft > DID improve upon Apple's "creation" Well, maybe, but I haven't seen any examples of such improvement... >With a standardized user interface, everyone wins. Users can move from machine >to machine without having to re-learn, developers can port their applications >from machine to machine more easily, manufacturers can concentrate on making >their machines better instead of trying to sell you on why their OS is better >than someone else's. I don't see how anyone benefits from NOT having a >standard. > Again, I agree. But Microsoft and HP should try to convince Apple to license their standard, rather than just ripping it off. ---- Mark Vita ARPA: vita@ge-crd.ARPA General Electric Company UUCP: vita@desdemona.steinmetz.UUCP Corporate R & D vita@desdemona.steinmetz.ge.com Schenectady, NY desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP