Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!bloom-beacon!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!osu-cis!att-cb!att-ih!ihnp4!ihlpf!dorst
From: dorst@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Dorst)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Intelligent Parrots (How smart is an eighth grader?)
Message-ID: <4406@ihlpf.ATT.COM>
Date: 13 Apr 88 18:07:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
Lines: 86
Keywords: psycholinguistics, intelligence, problem solving

Reply-To: ems@apple.UUCP (Mike Smith)
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA
Lines: 33

>In article <2495@geac.UUCP> sigrid@geac.UUCP (Sigrid Grimm) writes:
>>
>>The whole Conditioning-Only argument as "proof" that an animal has not 
>>exhibited intelligence behaviour is also becoming a tired one (in my humble
>>opinion). 
>...
>>I mean every single one of us only understands and does what we do because of 
>>the example set by some other human(s) at some time in our life. Does this mean 
>
>Bingo!  Seems to me that much of what happens in elementary school (and
>beyond, for that matter...) can be explained as Conditioned Response.
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a technical term that you are using incorrectly. "Conditioning"
is the more correct term.  However, the teaching profession does not use
conditioning in attempting to teach academic subjects.  They often use it
to control classroom behavior.
>I know that the multiplication tables are for most folks.  And dates in 
>history.  And answers to all sorts of 'factual' questions ... 
I think I understand the point you are trying to make which is that what
goes on in the classrooms of elementary and high schools is not education,
but a primitive form of training know as memorization.  Memorization 
expresses itself as "parroting" or repeating back to the teacher exactly
what the teacher had stated earlier.  Education, "the process of becoming
educated," often begins with exploring and ends with the person learning
something.  Developing a school system that ties in to children's natural
curiosity (Yes, I do mean that "curiosity" is part of human nature.) is
difficult to do.  Memorization curriculums are much easier to design.
>
>Does this mean that elementary and high school students lack human
>intelegence?  Proof at last!!!   :-)  
Not fair!  Adapation is one of the elements of intelligence.  If a student
successfully adapts to an environment, I wouldn't imply that that person
is stupid.  That person may not be particularly creative, but definitely
not stupid.
>
>The fact that my ducks liked to run onto the patio when I wasn't around to
>chase them off, but went JUST TO THE EDGE of the patio to quack at me when
>I would appear; the fact that my dog SLINKS out the open gate and acts
>guilty when caught, but goes boldly through when on a leash; and many 
>other similar events all lead me to believe that they have lots of 
>intelegence and use it much as a child does.  Speach is not language,
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>ask any signing deaf person.  'Body language' and posturing is widely
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>used among mammels and birds; so are 'calls and crys'.  They have language,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>it's just a question of complexity and form.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I had a hard time believing I was actually reading this!  NO, "body 
language," "calls and crys" are not language, a form of language or
have anything to do with what psychologists and linguists term as 
language. I suggest a class in elementary linguistics or 
psycholinguistics.  During the first week, the instructor will give the
definition of a language, so you won't need to wait long.  A language
1) has a set of elements or words and 2) a grammar, a set of rules to
interconnect the elements and 3) no, I repeat because this is important,
set patterns.  Sign language conforms to these constraints. (Although 
there are linguists who do question whether American Sign Language is 
actually a language. This came as a result of the controversy of whether
Washoe actually "said" something.)  There are some other subtle aspects
to defining what is a language, but these aspect further constrain the
definition, not widen it.

>
>E. Michael Smith  ...!sun!apple!ems
>
>'If you can dream it, you can do it'  Walt Disney
>
>This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything. (Including but
>not limited to: typos, spelling, diction, logic, and nuclear war)
>
>

			Gary Dorst
			AT&T Bell Labs
			Human Factors
			
			ihnp4!ihlpf!dorst