Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!mit-eddie!blue.sdr.slb.COM!DAVIS
From: DAVIS@blue.sdr.slb.COM
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
Subject: mega-flame on GNU & Unipress
Message-ID: <8804300706.AA08462@EDDIE.MIT.EDU>
Date: 29 Apr 88 22:07:00 GMT
Sender: uucp@eddie.MIT.EDU
Lines: 89

Dear GNU people

\begin{flame}
\begin{advert}
I have just spent about a month doing on-and-off development work of
GNU Emacs for users here, in particular, writing a *true* EDT
emulator, ada and TeX `compiler' error parsers, rationalising the
emacstool mouse and menu systems (mostly for help or reference
purposes), implementing modeline operations (such as modeline-dragging
and pull-down menus), and a function key utility called emap that
reads a text lines like "F2 save-buffer" and produces e-lisp code for
VT100's, shelltools and emacstools (VT200 and X versions on the
way, althought the latter is hardly necessary...).
\end{advert}

Where I work, we used to run Unipress Emacs, and when I started here I
was full of praise for the one true Emacs that we all know and love.
However, having started comparing the two, I find my doubts growing.
The implementation of window support under SunView in the Unipress
version is much more sophisticated than emacstool offers and its use of
the mouse much more usable (though I'm working on matching that).
Generally, Unipress appears more friendly, more polished: frankly - it
looks better.

Now its all very well, as e-lisp programmers, to rave about GNU's lisp
and other low-level features (such as the abscence of typeout buffers,
subsystems and so forth), but for front-end users, who don't want to
write new bits of an already huge system, but *do* want a polished,
friendly and helpful editor, my fear is that GNU does not match
Unipress.

Its true that I haven't seen GNU's X11-support yet, but I have this
nasty feeling that it could turn out to be not unlike emacstool, which
is nice, but it *isn't* polished, and sadly, I'm beginning to feel
that we're offering our users a bad deal here (we don't even save any
money, not this year anyway..).

Now, don't get me wrong - I love GNU !! In fact, its one of the most
sublime pieces of software I've seen. That doesn't detract, however,
from the fact that it doesn't compare in some vital user-level ways
with its commercial counterparts. 

Why this message ? Well, how about a little moral support ? Why *is*
GNU better than Unipress ? Don't tell me about e-lisp, I want to be
able to turn around to users and say "look at the smooth, intuitive
sophisticated interface this has". I *know* that GNU has the brains -
what about the body ? You see, it occurs to me that here I am, hacking
mouse-drag-modeline until early in the morning, doing this for love
rather than money, whilst somewhere in Edison, NJ, there are guys
whose *job* it is to produce silky stuff like this, and make money
from it ... its not that GNU programmers aren't capable, but we tend
not to have the time.....

So: why no modeline dragging in emacstool ? why no decent menus ? why
no built in help-on-mouse-thing ? why no interface to font changes ?
why is apropos help so slow under GNU ? why is interactive mouse and
key binding so complicated for naive users ? why no continuous scroll
? why no up-click hooks for mouse events ? why no interface to dbm ? 
why no inversion of the region ? 

I am very interested, and currently working on *all* these areas,
probably in the ignorance of their completion elsewhere, and I know
its a wish list... I would like to see GNU stand up against all
comparisons, and win, but for now, when it comes to the interface....
\end{flame}
\begin{what I don't need to be told}
	wait till you see Sun's new GNU-based Textedit ... ($$)
	GNU's X support is perfect ...
	GNU is free ...
	FSF has less money than Unipress ...
\end{what I don't need to be told}

How can I best help the FSF ?

suggestions, cold-water, requests, help, info to:

Paul Davis
Schlumberger Cambridge Research
PO Box 153
Cambridge, CB3 0EH
England

davis%m_scr%sdr.slb.com@relay.csnet

[+44] 223 325282

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"My boss wouldn't agree with this, but then, he's wrong....."
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