Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!ames!pasteur!ucbvax!decwrl!pyramid!prls!philabs!sbcs!root From: root@sbcs.sunysb.edu (SBCS Systems Staff) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: AppleTalk, Networking, Amigas and Offices Message-ID: <1151@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 17 Apr 88 14:09:11 GMT References: <648@cernvax.UUCP> Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Lines: 110 Keywords: AppleTalk, Network Summary: Appletalk network isn't cheap, really In article <648@cernvax.UUCP>, zofka@cernvax.UUCP (zofka) writes: > And now, what about networking with the Amiga. > > There is a big hole in the SoftWare market. Amigas now need Networks. Amiga has had networks for at least 1-2 years. Ameristar supplies IP/TCP, NFS, Telnet, etc and an Ethernet board for 2000's (500's soon). Catina supplies a peer to peer network. I think Nine Tiles in England supplies some sort of token ring board. Although I personally am hard pressed to call it a network, CLtd supplies some software for their SCSI controllers which allows disk sharing. I heard people talking about TOPS, Appletalk, DECNET, ISO, etc, etc. There is Dillon DNET. UDEL has a PD port of Phil Karns excellent IP/TCP package. Dale Luck is working on Xwindows window server. Ameristar is working on Sun's NeWS window server. YES zofka, the Amiga has networking. > > As we all know, every machines present in offices use networks. > AppleTalk for Mac and few others for IBM. Amiga has no capability > to communicate with others ones (except with DNET (1 other)). > You're wrong about the Amiga talking to other Amigas. Also, in the States, Ethernet is probably the single most important network at least in the scientific/engineering markets. > I can't recommend Amiga to peoples how need it in offices. Ethernet is > to expensive and not easy to install. > Ethernet costs what it does because of the volume that the Amiga market can support. For example, Ameristar would do cartwheels and drop their prices if they could ship 10% of what 3Com does in the PC market. It takes a lot more money to run a company + pay even small salaries (& overhead), power bills, phone bills, etc than you realize. All of this gets amortized into the board cost as overhead and of course the more boards you ship, the less overhead you pay/board. I would also hasten to point out that, for example, Suns PC/NFS plus a 3Com PC Ethernet board is $900 last time I checked. This is what Ameristar charges for equivalent functionality on the Amiga. And I can tell you that they sell at least 10X as many packages as Ameristar does (PC/NFS supposedly sold 2000 units on the first day orders were accepted). If you're complaining that Ethernet is inherently more expensive, well I think you're wrong but I will argue the point via e-mail. > Last month, I saw an article about AppleTalk on comp.sys.amiga. > > The author said that he can write the code but the amiga has no capability > to send packets at high speed thru serial port... > Not quite. The Amiga hardware is not compatible with the hardware attributes of the Appletalk net. It's more than just a level shifting problem too! > If you need an cheap, low-cost, auto-config, zorro,... board for your > software, I CAN DO IT. I have currently two quiet terminated development > and it's very easy to implement fast serial lines (specialized chips > exists and doesn't cost a lot). 25 chips on a card, including auto-conf > and buffering and for 200$ we can have an AppleTalk... And for A500 > thru A99999999 ;-). > I've looked at it, and I can tell you that you will not be able to build it, sell it, and make money at a $200 price point. In the first place, you will not be able to play the same games as Apple did in their implementation, ie basically have the processor poll the serial port. The data comes in at about 230.4 Khz/8, and you can't catch it byte by byte with the processor and still multitask. You will need DMA or at least a small processor + buffer ram on the card. All of this drives the cost up. The other problem with Appletalk, at least if you listen to people who have them running is that it doesn't scale, it doesn't give you the bandwidth you need, etc. We ought to learn this lesson from the Mac people before we go out and build a network interface that is already obsolete. > I have no time to develop software like networks but a small card is only > few weeks to develop (I can write the driver too if you need). > If you have no time to develop, then you clearly have no time to do the support work. Ameristar spends quite a bit of telephone time doing support, eg helping people debug their networks they already have installed before the Amiga ever arrived! > Time to create the NDG no ? (Network Development Group)... I don't think so, but then I am biased. > > Interested ??? Just reply on the Net or by mail > > zofka@cernvax.UUCB > zofka@cernvm (Bitnet) > milan@BIX (Bix) > > Milan Zofka 26, rte d'Annecy CH-1256 TROINEX GENEVA SWITZERLAND > ========================================================================= Rick Spanbauer SUNY/Stony Brook (& Ameristar)