Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!bloom-beacon!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!cornell!batcomputer!itsgw!steinmetz!macbeth!vita From: vita@macbeth.steinmetz (Mark F. Vita) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.windows.misc Subject: Re: Apple Lawsuit (was BOYCOTT APPLE, etc.) Message-ID: <10500@steinmetz.ge.com> Date: 20 Apr 88 13:08:40 GMT References: <292@unicom.UUCP> <663@csm9a.UUCP> <4283@dandelion.CI.COM> <13520@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> <453@xroads.UUCP> <394@upvax.UUCP> <103 <803@koko.UUCP> Sender: news@steinmetz.ge.com Reply-To: desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP (Mark F. Vita) Organization: General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY Keywords: Microsoft, HP New Wave, Xerox, Lawsuit Xref: utzoo comp.sys.apple:5574 comp.sys.ibm.pc:14661 comp.windows.misc:483 Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!bloom-beacon!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!cornell!batcomputer!itsgw!steinmetz!macbeth!vita From: vita@macbeth.steinmetz (Mark F. Vita) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.windows.misc Subject: Re: Apple Lawsuit (was BOYCOTT APPLE, etc.) Message-ID: <10500@steinmetz.ge.com> Date: 20 Apr 88 13:08:40 GMT References: <292@unicom.UUCP> <663@csm9a.UUCP> <4283@dandelion.CI.COM> <13520@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> <453@xroads.UUCP> <394@upvax.UUCP> <103 <803@koko.UUCP> Sender: news@steinmetz.ge.com Reply-To: desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP (Mark F. Vita) Organization: General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY In article <803@koko.UUCP> foobar@koko.UUCP (John Fruetel) writes: >[...] >Even though Apple may have some legal grounds (although it seems shaky >after reading the Apple/Microsoft agreement), they are certainly not >following industry practices. Visicorp essentially invented the >electronic spreadsheet. As far as I know, they didn't sue everyone >who later introduced an electronic spreadsheet. Actually, I believe they did sue at least one company. Shortly after Lotus filed suit against Paperback and Mosaic over their 1-2-3 clones, the original authors of Visicalc filed suit against Lotus. I haven't heard anything more about the case since then. >[...] Why does Apple think that >they possess the right for all window-type operating systems? *Sigh*. They don't. But they do think they possess the right for their own particular "window-type operating system", which they feel Microsoft and HP have illegally cloned. There's a big difference between claiming someone has copied the Macintosh interface and asserting that only Apple has the right to produce a graphical windowing system. Apple isn't claming to own the entire category of windowing software, but rather just one particular instantiation of such a system. Going back to the spreadsheet example, Lotus didn't sue everyone who was producing a spreadsheet program (for example, they did not sue Microsoft over Multiplan). They only sued companies producing programs that were intentional clones of 1-2-3. This doesn't mean that Lotus "thinks that they possess the right for all spreadsheets". >[...] >For the first time in my computing career, I'm rooting for IBM as the >underdog. >Although IBM wasn't specifically mentioned in the suit, Apple >*must* have had the Presentation Manager (which is based on Windows 2.0) >in mind. As you say, the Mac's (only) advantage over PC's is the windowing >environment. IBM is moving to "fix" this problem. Once they do, Apple >will no longer hold the monopoly on "user friendly" interfaces. Yeah, it's kind of sick how IBM leeches off the proven technology of other companies, eh? :^) >Unless >Apple seriously enhances their OS, it could be curtains for the Mac. So, >I don't blame them for wanting to maintain a competitive edge. But why >couldn't they have enhanced Finder and Multifinder? And why, oh why, >won't they put a reasonable price tags on their machines? This would >CERTAINLY give them a better edge than they have now. Yes, you're right, this would give them a better edge. And in fact, Apple is now in the process of doing exactly the things you describe. A Mac Plus, which used to cost upwards of $2500 a couple years ago, can now be had for under $1500. And they are supposedly in the process of doing a complete rewrite of the operating system, to allow such things as preemptive multitasking, etc. But of course, doing the things mentioned above and filing suit against Microsoft/HP aren't mutually exclusive. If rewriting their OS will give them a good edge, rewriting the OS *and* slowing the development of clones will give them an even better edge. >>You mention that the Apple suit is bugging a lot of people. Well, >>first of all, let me point out that the people being "bugged" are, for >>the most part, owners of MS-DOS machines. The reason they are annoyed > (I've heard mucho complaints from Mac owners.) >>is that Apple is not letting them use Apple-invented technology on >>their non-Apple equipment. Well, the answer to this, however asinine >>it may sound, is that if you want to benefit from this Apple-invented >>technology, you should buy Apple equipment. >> >What Apple invented technology? You mean XEROX invented technology, don't >you? *Sigh*, again. No, I do mean "Apple-invented technology". I say again: Xerox did not invent the Macintosh interface. (Though it is true that the Mac interface is based on many of the concepts developed by Xerox at PARC during the 70s.) Saying that Xerox invented the Mac interface is somewhat akin to saying that Henry Ford invented the Mustang. >Even though Apple may have enhanced the concept (possibly with >Microsoft's programmers, no less), I feel that Windows 2.0 is >an improvement over Finder. It allows multitasking, particularly >Windows/386, and it's process based instead of file based. I don't think that these are user interface issues. They have more to do with the underlying operating system, which is invisible to the average user, and which has nothing to do with the "look and feel" issue brought forth in Apple's lawsuit. >It's also >a little nicer to people who don't care for mice. So I feel that Microsoft >HAS come up with a better interface than Apple and that it is not simply >a Finder rip-off. Well, I guess we simply disagree here. I maintain that Microsoft intentionally copied the Macintosh interface. >bcnu j fruetel > >* The opinions expressed here are John Fruetel * >* my own, etc., etc., etc.. Valley Fresh Foods, Inc. * >* Turlock, CA * >* ..uunet!lll-winken!csustan!foobar * ---- Mark Vita ARPA: vita@ge-crd.ARPA General Electric Company UUCP: vita@desdemona.steinmetz.UUCP Corporate R & D vita@desdemona.steinmetz.ge.com Schenectady, NY desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP