Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!cmcl2!nrl-cmf!ames!pasteur!ucbvax!noah.arc.CDN!kenw
From: kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re:  Pacer vs. Alisa
Message-ID: <1427*kenw@noah.arc.cdn>
Date: 5 May 88 18:37:00 GMT
References: <5462@utah-cs.UUCP>
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 84

>In article <1396*kenw@noah.arc.cdn> kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein)writes:
>>
>>  Nope. Pacer uses the standard Apple client software, too, exactly as it
>>comes from Apple. What's more, Pacer's _server_ software on VMS uses theVMS
>>_NATIVE_ file structure, as opposed to those big virtual disks files that
>>Alias uses. This provides significant advantages in terms of performance,user
>>interface, and security.
>
>        This is very bizarre? If the above is true, then:
>
>        1. why is Pacer trying to sell use SEPARATE client software. (at
>                significant cost to us)
>
>        2. Why does Pacer discuss tcp/ip style sockets when explaining why
>                their software conflicts with Telnet.
>
>        3. Why does my version of Alisashare work just fine with the NATIVE
>                VMS file structure....
>
>I always new Canada was different :-)
>
>-ed
>cetron@cs.utah.edu

  Oh, it is, it is :-)

  But let's get something cleared up here. This much is certain:

	a) Both Alisa and Pacer have well-established NON-Appleshare file/disk
service products. Neither of those used the native VAX/VMS directory structure
to represent the Macintosh directory structure. 

	b) Both Alisa and Pacer now have Appleshare file server HOST software
which runs under VAX/VMS, supporting _Apple's_ CLIENT software on the
Macintosh. 

  When we refer to these products, let's be clear about the category of server
to which we are referring. Now...

  1. Pacer's older product, pcLink, uses a single VAX file to represent a
Macintosh HFS volume. It requires special software on both the VAX and the
Mac. Alisa's older product is similar, except that, last I heard, it does not
properly support HFS. I doubt many people will care much longer. 

  2. pcLink runs over either Appletalk, Ethernet (your choice of protocol:
Pacer's custom PNP, or TCP/IP) or RS232 (not sure about the protocol there).
This provides support for both 'virtual disk' and (due to some device driver
magic) high-speed terminal connections. It also works, as I said before, with 
both Macs and (ugh) MS-DOS engines, served by VMX/VMS, Unix, Primos, etc.
PacerShare, on the other hand, uses EtherTalk, Macs to VMS only.

  3. What does 'just fine' mean? Do Mac files coexist in the same directories
as your VMS files, with AlisaShare? They do with PacerShare. Do they look any
different from your VMS files, aside from the icons? They don't with
PacerShare. The PacerShare SERVER uses the VMS _directory_ and file structures
_directly_. It maintains a desktop subdirectory in each VAX directory, to
contain Mac-specific information about the files in that directory/folder.
There's no other distinction between Mac and VMS files. 

  When I started to use the Mac to do VMS directory maintenance, the first
thing I did was make a lot of new directory/folders, and categorize things
better. It's a nice interface, but it's not QUITE transparent. All the VAX
files show up on the Mac as generic document icons. Blah. And I'd like to be
able to double-click on VAX files and have a terminal window open up running
the appropriate VAX/VMS image. As near as I can figure, it should be possible
to do exactly that, just by somehow (HyperCard?) invoking a Mac terminal
emulator and sending an appropriate command string to the VAX. Doesn't sound 
hard to me :-)

  I'm sure there's a difference between Alisa's and Pacer's Appleshare
servers, but to be honest, I'm no expert as to what they are. We are running
Pacer software. I tried unsuccessfully to get Alisa running here, but it
didn't like the load we were running on our Fastpath; at that time, there was
no Alisashare. Therefore, to some extent, I've been repeating what I've been
told about Alisa, albeit by people in a good position to know. Mea culpa. 

  I've yet to see _any_ significant comparison by _anyone_ with real
experiance with both products. 

  Nobody's said much so far about TSSnet. And I'm really looking forward to 
how Tops for VMS works. Tops is peer-to-peer; the idea of mounting a Mac 
volume from the VAX and backing it up to tape every night is intriguing.

/kenw