Xref: utzoo news.groups:3744 comp.graphics:2477 comp.sys.ibm.pc:15567 comp.sys.mac:16044
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Mike_Wiley-E-Coyote_Neff
From: Mike_Wiley-E-Coyote_Neff@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.graphics,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: RFC - comp.binaries.gif
Message-ID: <5427@cup.portal.com>
Date: 14 May 88 18:13:47 GMT
References: <4358@dasys1.UUCP>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 102
XPortal-User-Id: 1.1001.3246

> This is a request for COMMENT on creating a new group: comp.binaries.gif.
> This is NOT a request for votes - let's discuss it first.
>
> Anyway, we are starting to see a fair volume of GIF files posted to the
> net, along with programs to view them.  I am proposing that we create a
> newsgroup just for the picture (xxxx.gif) files themselves;...
                                  ^^^^^^^^

Thanks for posting this Tom.  As a poster of some GIF files I was
thinking of posting a similar posting myself.  I fully support creation
of a new newgroup.  However, let's not stop and limit it to GIF format
files.  How about calling it something like comp.binaries.image or
something like that.  I also believe that GIF is the most popular format
at present.  However, there are a number of other graphic formats such as
TIFF, IFF, Macpaint, postscript, etc. that cross different machine
boundaries like GIF does that would benefit from being placed in this
newsgroup.  As graphic image standards progress and perhaps we get
standards that become superior to GIF ( support more than 8 bit color
colormaps, better compression algorithms than LZW ), the group
comp.binaries.image could grow into these standards.  The format of the
file could be placed in the subject line of the header.

> here are my
> two main reasons:
> 
>  1. Right now people tend to post GIF files to the .sys or .bin newsgroup
> for *their* brand of computer, be it Mac, Amiga or whatever.  Thus people
> with other makes who COULD view them, don't see them because they unsubscribe
> to the foreign groups.  We could ask everybody to crosspost like mad, but
> these files are large enough that the extra space consumed would be a bother
> to sysadmins.

  Yes!  Also, since they are posted in different newsgroups, even if an ibm pc
user goes into the comp.binaries.mac group for instance, the GIF postings in
that group might have been translated using binhex as opposed to uuencode.  By
having one newsgroup we could hopefully have one method of translation ( read
on... ).

>  2. Conversely, there are people who CAN'T view graphics files, who
> nonetheless have to pay to carry them right now because they are lumped in
> with unrelated -- but desired - material.  Pictures are not the same as
> programs, so some comp.binaries moderators may dislike having them submitted;
> worse yet are the discussion groups like rec.startrek where X% of readers
> have nothing but VT100s!  GIF is totally useless to them, and bound to
> remain so.
>
> The two big advantages, then, of comp.binaries.gif would be (a) it would
> allow GIF-capable users on ALL kinds of machines to share a common pool
> of pictures; and (b) it would insulate NON-GIF-capable sites from the
> comm burden of carrying pictures -- they could turn off the group at their
> discretion.

Good points.  I also believe that we should consider moderation of this group.
This would help postings in the following ways:

  1.  This person could regulate the flow of postings since the size of
      postings would probably be large enough to create network traffic
      problems if enough were posted at the same time.

  2.  The moderator could screen the files for potentially objectionable
      content and could add warnings to or censor the files where necessary.

  3.  The moderator could screen the files for errors to prevent costly reposts
      of files that were munged.

  4.  The moderator could translate more obscure file formats to something like
      GIF so that more machine architectures could view them unless the poster
      would request otherwise.

  5.  The moderator could ensure that the files would all be uuencoded ( if 
      this were agreed upon as the translation method of choice ) as opposed
      to being zooed or binhexed or the like.

  6.  The moderator could ensure that no copyright violations would be broken
      for images stating copyrights in the picture ( not immediately obvious
      without uudecoding and viewing ).

  7.  If possible the moderator could be located at a site where he/she could 
      keep these images in an area where they could be obtained through 
      anonymous ftp.

> I suppose if we created this group, then comp.binaries.gif.d would kind of
> have to happen to, because users are still learning how to view GIF from
> what I can see in the message base.

  I like this idea too.

>
> Well this is longer than I intended, but those are the issues.  Dunno if
> Gene would prefer your comments posted here or mailed to me, but I will
> "fer sure" summarize anything I do get in the mail.  Thanks for listening.
> 
> -- 
> Tom Neff			UUCP: ...!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!tneff
>	"None of your toys	CIS: 76556,2536		MCI: TNEFF
>	 will function..."	GEnie: TOMNEFF		BIX: are you kidding?

Tom, where are your relatives originally from?

Mike Neff, alias "Coyote"
Coyote@cup.portal.com