Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!bbn!gatech!ken
From: ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.nsc.32k
Subject: commentary on "532 Manifesto"
Keywords: 32532, PD board
Message-ID: <17145@gatech.edu>
Date: 15 May 88 19:35:56 GMT
Organization: School of Information and Computer Science, Georgia Tech, Atlanta
Lines: 147


	I have been reading the '532 manifesto' with great interest.  I
think that the idea behind it is superb, and i am willing to contribute
whatever i can to seeing it realized.  However, i have some commentary to 
render on the system.  I do not mean this as an attack on the idea or
any individual, and these are my own personal opinions.  It is most 
deinately NOT a flame....

*Physical Configuration:

	While designing the system as an AT motherboard replacement has
many virtues, I feel that it would be more constructive to design the
board with a much more useul and versitile bus.  There are many chips now which 
vastly simpliy the interfacing of cpu and bus, for example the VME interface
chips from Motorola or the Multibu II chips from Toshiba.  However, there
is a much simpler and cost effective way.  I the back of the 32000 series
reference book, there is the plans for a Multibus I interface.  This would
be a quick and easy way to get some very good expansion capacity.

	These days, Multibus I boards are very inexpensivequite reliable
and generic enough so that they should work with the '532.  There are also
a huge number of different board types.

	We should remember that the PC/AT bus is slow and inefficient, and
many AT boards probably will not work with a '532.

*Display:

	I don't think much of EGA.  I think that it would be much more
interesting to design in one of the new graphics controller chips.  I am
particularly fond of the TI 34010, but another choice could be the Intel
82786.  these chips are very versitile and support a wide variety of
standards.  They are also extremly fast and would compliment the '532
nicely.  They also dont cost that much (sic) and can live in the same
memory as the CPU if they have to (ie no expensive VRAMs).

	As a matter of interest, the TI 34010 can do more than graphics.
It can CCITT group 3 & 4 image compression.  People are using it in systems
where it is the only processor, handling the graphics, communication and
keyboard.  This is one HOT chip....

	On the other hand, if people decide that they want one of the
IBM graphics standards, I would suggest looking at the Trident Microsystems
VGA chip.  It looks quite good and the sales person that I spoke to at 
Comdex mentioned that there was a company working on a 68000 board that
uses this chip for video, so we know it works in an alien enviroment (from a 
Intel chip).  Trident is willing to sell the chip alone and development 
kits for it.

*Hard disk and tape:

	SCSI is the optimal solution...

*Serial ports:

	I consider serial ports to be very important, and i dont really
want to see them religated to an expansion card.  Personally, I would like to
see at least 2 (up to 6) 19.2k ports on the motherboard, if not RS-422.

*Memory:

	Er, "tough shit" if i need more than 8MB memory?  I for one DO need
more than 8MB.  I'd like to run ObjTalk (OO Lisp variant) and its not real
happy with less than 10MB.  This is a minor point for most people, as 8MB
is a real good amount of memory for most situations.  The only reson i bring
it up is to point out that if we went with a solution like Multibus I for
expansion, those of us with outlandish memory requirements can have it
(at some performance penalty, of course).

	Realisticly, of course, it is unlikely that i would be able to 
afford 10MB of memory for quite some time...;'}

*OS:

	I guess this is were some real religion comes in...sorry if i step
on some toes.  

	System V:  I don't see this as a solution.  Who is going to slap down
$50K to buy the source license so that we can all get unix?  Someone has
to do it, correct me if i am mistaken.  In any case, I would like to have the 
source to my operating system.

	BSD:  Ditto above...

	Minix:  A toy operating system never intended to do anything but
educate (ask Tannenbaum).  Not something I'd want to cripple a '532 with.

	Mach:  This is a marvilous job.  Well though out and well executed.
Even better, it doesn't cost anything.  Mach, from CMU, is a rewrite from 
(almost) the ground up of BSD 4.3.  Mach does nifty computer science-y things
like lightweight processes, advanced memory management and a buch of other
goodies.  The catch is that the group that wrote Mach didn't want to write
certain things like device drivers, so they used AT&Ts.  That means you have to 
have a source license to get mach going.  I have heard that the GNU guys are
working on removing the AT&T stuff from Mach so that it really will be
free.  I have my finger crossed.  Perhaps we sould lend them a hand so we
can use Mach on our little beasty.......

	V:  Stanfords little toy.  A dark horse, but a very interesting one.
V is based on a very small and efficient kernal.  It is claimed that it is
readily portable, but i don't know for sure.  I believe that it is inexpensive
to get (media cost, perhaps?).  I will research V some more, but I have heard
some really good things about it.

*DMA

	Daryl McDaniel mentioned the fact that he has been designing '532
systems with the AT&T 32104 DMA chip.  The more i look at the specs for the 
32104, the better this sounds.  I vote for DMA.  I really think for a chip
with the speed of the '532, we need it.

	Thanks Daryl...

*FPU

	I personally would like to see some way to add a floating point unit.
This sould be an option however.  The best thing i can think of is to bring 
all of the '532 lines out to a PGA connector, and then build a little daughter
bord with the FPU that plugs in.  This would make it easy to add a '381,
'581 (if such a thing ever materializes) or perhaps a Weitek chipe set...

	Theres no such thing as "to much floating point"...;'}

*Summary:

	There, for what it is worth, are my humble thoughts.  In summary, my
dream 32532 system would be:

Physical:	SBC with 2-6 Multibus I slots
CPU:		NS 32532
FPU:		Optional socket
SIO:		2+ 19.2kbps RS-232
GDP:		TI 34010 ( or Intel 82786 or Trident TVGA )
DMA:		AT&T 32104
Memory:		2MB expandable on motherboard to 8MB (32-bit)
Mass Storage:	SCSI
Keyboard:	IBM PC standard keyboard port
OS:		Mach ( or V )

I welcome commentary and constructive criticism.  I also offer whatever 
assistance i can render.

**DISCLAIMER: I am not a part of, nor do i represent any of the companies
or institutions or products that I have mentioned.

	ken seefried iii
	ken@gatech.edu