Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!im4u!ut-sally!ut-emx!legare
From: legare@ut-emx.UUCP (BoB teCh)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: Wish List re: Crossposting
Message-ID: <2594@ut-emx.UUCP>
Date: 20 May 88 22:41:44 GMT
References: <3938@gryphon.CTS.COM> <439@bacchus.DEC.COM> <119@pigs.UUCP> <14754@oddjob.UChicago.EDU>
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas
Lines: 90
Posted: Fri May 20 17:41:44 1988

In article <14754@oddjob.UChicago.EDU>, matt@oddjob.UChicago.EDU (D 1 4 U 2 C) writes:
> In article <555@scovert.sco.COM> davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) writes:
> ) Let people crosspost FROM talk.bizarre.  Don't let people crosspost TO 
> ) talk.bizarre.  That's where most of the trouble comes from.  People who don't
> ) understand the purpose of talk.bizarre.
> 
> Perhaps this is true from the point of view of a regular talk.bizarre
> reader.  From my point of view, and that of several people I have
> talk or corresponded with, the "trouble" comes from talk.bizarre
> regulars crossposting out.  Sometimes they just don't know what some
> other newsgroup is about, other times it is clear that their sole
> purpose is to annoy people.

Oddly enough, this is exactly the sort of opinion many talk.bizarre readers 
have about people who crosspost TO talk.bizarre. The fact still remains that 
a -majority- of the messages crossposted with "talk.bizarre" in their 
newsgroups line originate (or at least the _first_ article in the string
originates) from _outside_ talk.bizarre territory, in fact from outside the
talk. heirarchy completely.

a brief rundown on the newsgroups from which articles have been crossposeted
TO talk.bizarre:

rec.humor
rec.humor.funny
rec.arts.startrek
alt.sex
soc.singles
rec.pets [although most of this was richard's doing]
rec.arts.comics
rec.books
misc.misc

naturally this is an incomplete list, as I am merely a user and not a sysadmin.

for those who haven't hit "n" reflexisvely when they saw the name, here's an
outline of the pattern of crossposting behavior:

step 1: initial article posted. poster of article thinks "hey, this is kinda
	bizarre" and adds talk.bizarre to the Newsgroups: line.
step 2: article is transmitted to sites, in both the initial newsgroup, and
	talk.bizarre
step 3: various people read the article. some decide to Follow-up the article.
	most of them do not edit the Newsgroups: line (it is assumed here that
	the majority of these people are reading the article in the newsgroup
	from which it was originally posted), so their follow-ups go to 
	talk.bizarre as well.
step 4: [OPTIONAL] various talk.bizarre readers request that the articles not
	be crossposted to talk.bizarre.
step 5: [assuming the requests made in step 4 are ignored, as they were 80%
	of the time] more needless crossposting TO talk.bizarre. temperatures
	rise
step 6: massive flameposting by various talk.bizarre people in an attempt to
	scare crossposters out of crossposting [yeah sure. we all know that
	the only REASON those nasty talk.bizarre people do this stuff is so
	they can clog up the network with lots of cuss words and get the whole
	thing shut down.]
step 7: readers of newsgroup article was posted FROM flame talk.bizarre people
	for crossposting to THEIR group. much use is made of "well then WHY
	did YOU crosspost?" argument.

steps 3 through 7 repeat endlessly unless curtailed by group consensus, as in
the case of the rec.arts.startrek debacle.

naturally, anyone who "doesn't read those talk. groups anyway" will receive 
incomplete data as to what all the yelling is about. ditto for anyone who
doesn't read the rec.*, soc.* or whatever.* newsgroups.

assuming that the crossposting problem will vanish the moment that the talk.*
groups are dropped is as ludicrous as stating that the headaches will 
go away just as soon as we remove your arm. you're attacking a symptom without
doing anything productive in the way of a cure.

naturally, the "quick fix" of dropping talk.bizarre will make certain persons
feel good, since they didn't want those senseless talk.* groups anyway, but
there will still be crossposting.

let's try and be a bit more openminded about "the crossposting problem", shall
we?

BoB
teCh
worming his way into your hard disks with a cry for sanity.


> 
> Besides, it would be damn hard for software to tell the difference
> between crossposting "to" and "from" a newsgroup.
> 
> 			Matt