Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!bbn!rochester!ritcv!cci632!ccicpg!felix!zemon
From: stokes@udiego.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Snake Oil
Message-ID: <38553@felix.UUCP>
Date: 25 May 88 21:18:29 GMT
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> Someone in Ultrix Product Management asked me to submit this for him.
> The rest of this is the submission.  Fred
> ------
> ...
>
> Digital has put as much (or more) effort into promoting the POSIX standard
> as anyone.  This would be an odd thing if our chief officer was "against
> standards".

Promoting is one thing, implementation is another.  I think the badly
botched BSD 4.3 feature in the current release is an example of just
how much Digital stands behing `standards'.  Ultrix has too many
things that just aren't there and when you SPR/request/bitch to have
it fixed -- you often get a cold shoulder.  With my VMS systems, at
most I have to make two calls to two hotlines to get an answer --
Ultrix takes more time to track down the answers.  Call Merrimack and
ask to talk to the people in Ultrix software distribution if you
do not believe me!

> As to Digital supporting ULTRIX, I recently went to an internal meeting of
> top-level Digital Executives where the top three speakers (Ken Olsen, and two
> senior V.P.s) said in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that we have:
>  
> 	One Company, One Architecture and TWO Operating Systems
>  
> VMS and ULTRIX.  These operating systems will be sold on an EQUAL basis
> (Ken's OWN WORDS to these top-level Digital executives).  Yes, it is a large
> company, and yes, there are still pockets of resistance.  In today's Digital,
> however, you [meaning Digital employees]  had better keep those thoughts of
> resistance to yourself.
>  
Tell that to our salesman (and previous salepersons)!  Everytime I call
about VMS products, he can find price quotes, etc.  When I call about
Ultrix he gets lost!  Or if I mention I want an X processor to use
UNIX, he had to check with district management to get the offical price.
And WHY IN HELL do I have to BUY a VMS licenese for my VAXstation-2000
that runs Ultrix????

I'm sorry, I like DEC hardware but I think Ultrix (and UNIX) is
treated by DEC as a BASTARD layered product.  I talked to a hardware
V.P. at the last DECUS in Anaheim and he implied that many DEC
upper managemnet people look at UNIX people like those people
who still run TOPS-10, TOPS-20, and RSX -> a pain that they
wish would go away!

Prediction: VMS 5.0 and VMS 5.1 will do more to convert VMS systems to
			UNIX than any other single even in the 1980s!


---
David Stokes                    "I started looking out for #1, 
Academic Computing Department    and I step in #2!" -- Dangerfield 
University of San Diego
(619) 260-4810 or {ucsd|ucsdhub}!udiego!stokes