Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!husc6!bloom-beacon!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!tektronix!uunet!seismo!esosun!hyland
From: hyland@esosun.UUCP (Steve Hyland)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Automatic module initialization (was Xtk Resource Converters)
Message-ID: <192@esosun.UUCP>
Date: 29 May 88 17:50:39 GMT
References: <10049@sol.ARPA> <1210005@hpfcmr.HP.COM>
Reply-To: hyland@esosun.UUCP (Steve Hyland)
Organization: Science Applications Internations Corp, San Diego
Lines: 60

In article <1210005@hpfcmr.HP.COM> chan@hpfcmr.HP.COM (Chan Benson) writes:

>> [If else anyone wants to debate the merits of C as a modern programming
>> language, I suggest that they, and I, do it somewhere other than
>> "xpert/comp.windows.x".]
>
>I've been trying to restrain myself....
>
>I don't really want to debate the merits of C. I don't really care
>whether you think C is modern or not. I want to know why (given that
>C was the language chosen) Xtk was not designed with the limitations
>of C in mind.
>
>Did it not occur to you that if you had to build another language
>on top of C to do what you wanted, that you were doing the wrong thing?
>
>This continual whining from the Xtk developers about the language
>they were "forced" to use does not help the advancement of Xtk. Can
>you imagine Sun employees posting bits like "Well, if Bill Joy had
>let us use a real language rather than this primitive PostScript
>stuff, we could have really made wonderful NeWS."
>
>			-- Chan Benson
>			HP Fort Collins
>
>Does this mean there won't be any Xtk Fortran bindings?

Actually, I find myself in agreement with both Charles Haynes and Chan
Benson. 

I'm no great fan of C but I won't insult C programmers. I've had a
number of C programmers question my sanity because I write X clients in Ada.

Fine. I won't ask C programmers to use my binding.

I think the binding you use should reflect the language your client will 
be written in. At the same time, each language binding must recognize that, 
in the best of all possible worlds, a client shouldn't know or care 
what language a server is written in. Additionally, no server should 
make assumptions about the language used to write the client. As we 
embark upon our second phase of development, that of writing all of 
Xlib in Ada, we try to keep this in mind. I hope those who work in C
have a similar world view.

Similarly, moaning about the limitations that C imposed upon Xtk or that
Xtk imposes upon clients is unproductive. Xtk represents a lot of work
and a test of a lot of interesting ideas. If I were to slavishly follow
the design of Xtk in our toolkit work, I would be limiting myself to only
a part of what Ada is capable of, not to mention producing some ugly code.
If, however, I follow the spirit of Xtk - which I happen to like - then
the Ada toolkit will be both similar to Xtk as well as capable of handling
issues like tasking.

I guess my point is, those of us who work in other languages won't criticize
C if those who work in C don't assume that everyone using X works in C.

'Nuff said. I've either made my point or hopelessly insulted everyone.

Steve Hyland
SAIC