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From: browning@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Craig Browning)
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d,news.admin
Subject: Re: No games or picture files for now
Message-ID: <3973@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu>
Date: 16 Jun 88 18:07:58 GMT
References: <2350@slvblc.UUCP> <1577@hoqax.UUCP> <22047@amdcad.AMD.COM> <8083@brl-smoke.ARPA> <3918@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> <170@falkor.UUCP>
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Reply-To: browning@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Craig Browning)
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Preface: Ron, I feel your earlier posting was selfish, saying basically that
programs you like should be posted and what many want, pictures or games,
shouldn't. IF a good group is found for pics, you'll grudgingly allow it, but
if not too bad, that group can just lose out and shut up. My posting mentioned
that your utilities [disclaimer: they're my favorite also] are easily available
faster on BBS's; so the person who said find them somewhere else should follow
his own advice. The pictures especially, and games, are less available in my
calling, and this is a wonderful forum for them. While I'm not offering a
solution to high traffic, I don't feel the answer is selfishness, and if it were
let the utilities people including me drop their postings, and go use BBS's;
Compuserve is expensive, I used to use it [72747,1012 is still active] but while
your suggestions on lowering costs are helpful to do that simple transfer time
and [you didn't mention] getting current listings of all of the files costs a
lot of money.
Finally, please use e-mail for initial replies so people don't bang out
arguments over the net but can correct each other's  statements, then post
summaries.

In article <170@falkor.UUCP> heiby@mcdchg.UUCP (Ron Heiby) writes:
>Craig Browning (browning@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP) writes:
>> P.S. To those who suggest Compuserve, YOU go to Compuserve...
>I have an account on Compuserve.  Among other things, I found the new version
>of ZIP about two weeks before it showed up in comp.binaries.ibm.pc.  Also,
>files "hang around" in the libraries on Compuserve until it's convenient for
>*me* to get them.  They don't just go away in 1-2 weeks.

We agree then! BBS's also get things first...
>> why should those of us who don't pay extra for our accounts have to
>> got to the major expense of Compuserve?
>The answer to this one's simple.  The reason why people should be asked
>to pay their own way is so simple that this early in the morning I can't
>find words simpler than that to explain it. 

Then why didn't you? You only explained how to minimize the disaster.
>I use a *FREE* program written
>by Compuserve members to access the forums and download libraries.  It is
>set up to automate things so that all of the human "think time" is done
>off-line.  Since 1200 and 2400 bps cost the same, dumping everything I'm
>interested in takes a very short amount of time.  The program I use is
>called AUTOSIG or ATO.  Another exists that I know little about, called
>TAPCIS which seems to do about the same thing.
>
>> The truth is that BBS's have all of the utilities and few of the
>> games and pictures, in my calling; all of the utiilities I've liked recently
>> on the net recently I had earlier from BBS's, but none of the pictures and
>> I'd like to see more games in bin; lots of requests for nethack etc. have
>> been posted asking for posting for instance.
>Well, I've already mentioned an example of where I got the new ZIP sooner
>on Compuserve, so you may be right there.  I understand that Compuserve
                   ^I like this guy.:)
>has a *large* number of picture files, with a "forum" devoted to pictures.
>In the IBM New Users forum libraries, there are games.  Since I don't have
>time to play the half dozen games I already have on my PC, I haven't bothered
>to even get a directory of the games available, but I've seen discussion of
>several of them.

The giveaway: 1) the selection is terrible unlike utilities (pictures are
there though); 2) you don't answer the fact it would cost us a LOT to get the
pictures on compuserve, and as I said they aren't very available on free BSS's.
3) You don't like or play games apparently! Surprise at your position then!
4) Sorry for this flaming but ON THIS ISSUE I feel you're not respecting other
people's desires.

>> More seriously, please don't be quick to demand taking away what someone else
>> wants, because next time they might take your thing like binaries.
>Several sites are already looking at whether to continue to carry binaries.
>By not carrying pictures and games, comp.binaries.ibm.pc will demonstrate
>that it is worth the communication costs to pass it around.  These are costs
>that you obviously don't pay and are not responsible for.
Wrong! We are a major backbone, and pay through fees, taxes, or whatever for
this stuff, and distibute it to many people. I don't think we'll be dropping
UCBJADE like AT&T dropped theirs. In my posting I said we don't pay EXTRA
which means we don't get a seperate net bill, we do pay though even though we
wouldn't get a refund of anything if we didn't have the net; after all it's not
dollars we're spending but machines.
>I have been
>specifically directed by my boss to do everything I can to reduce our phone
>bills.  So far, I've resisted dropping newsgroups.  Other sites are not as
>fortunate as I.

Sounds Darwinian... should the net be limited to it's weakest link? Once again
I would say you're choosing a selfish solution; just because you only want
utilities, you'd sooner see all picture and games people lose their files than
see your one site lose all pc binaries. Perhaps we should seperate the types
of pc binaries, or at least make comp.pics comp.binaries.pics, to let sites
choose which groups they want; our site for instance will distribute all groups
but smaller sites can get what they want, so you could refuse 'pics'.


>> SNAP 3.0 is out; if it's better than 2.2 GET IT.
>I believe that I've already seen this announced as available on Compuserve.

Ha, case in point, I just got version 3.1from a bulletin board!! I'll post
it probably, though a letter to the author got no response; but he gives
permission in the docs. It's fantastic. I'm waiting to see what Keith Peterson
does though; he seems to have contact with the author or some plans for posting.
Keith, do you know what the 3.1 mods are? The docs only mention 3.0.

>Ron Heiby, heiby@mcdchg.UUCP	Moderator: comp.newprod & comp.unix
>"Failure is one of the basic Freedoms!" The Doctor (in Robots of Death)
You do good services to the net which are appreciated Ron...

Craig