Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!rutgers!ucsd!ucbvax!UIAMVS.BITNET!AWCTTYPA From: AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS.BITNET ("David A. Lyons") Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple Subject: hackers/users--interface issues Message-ID: <8806192247.aa08285@SMOKE.BRL.ARPA> Date: 20 Jun 88 03:53:51 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 79 X-Unparsable-Date: Sunday 19 Jun 88 8:28 PM CT >Date: Fri, 17 Jun 88 01:17:40 GMT >From: Sean Kamath >Subject: Re: "hackers" vs "users" >What really happens is that the programmer no longer spends his time >on the myriad little things, *nor on the task at hand*, but rather at >the 652 page book on guidelines to the user interface. The Human Interface Guidelines book is actually pretty small...it's the *technical* documentation that is big, and it does take time to get a feeling for it--but once you do, there is a LOT of useful stuff int he toolbox, just waiting to be called by your application! I have about four FEET of IIgs documentation, and most of it is NOT about interface design issues--it's about how to USE the toolbox routines, and if you do that you've almost *automatically* followed the human interface guidelines, since the toolbox does most of the work for you. >Now I ask you, go write a program, with a mac interface, on the GS, >that inputs a name. Now do it without the guidelines. . . You end >up with a series of calls to the toolkit on the GS, and *one* call to >getln in the monitor. Now, I'm not saying that getln is better, but >it's a hell of a lot easier for me, the programmer, do deal with if >all I want is a quick way to get a filename. (good example, that's >just exactly what I do right now in Apencode.) Now JUST A SEC here. This is how I get a filename in my latest project: SFGetFile(120,35,'Open what Icon file:',@MyFilter, TypeListRecPtr(nil),myReply); It's just ONE CALL to the STandard File toolset. This one is for opening an existing file, and there is an almost-identical one for getting a new filename. myReply is just a RECORD that will receive the filename & complete pathname, as well as a flag saying if the user chose a file or clicked Cancel. MyFilter is a function that takes a file's directory entry and returns 0, 1, or 2 to say whether the file should appear in the list the user sees, and whether it should be selectable or dimmed out. The Standard File tools let the user select a disk and a directory in a nice, standard way (just like the Mac), and they can always Cancel the thing. Unlike GETLN, they don't have to worry about hitting Control characters by accident, and they don't have to GUESS at the names of their disks, directories, or files. >[...] I'm going to wait for something better. Something that does >what you say: Better hardware with software that takes advantage of >it. It's like the GS. Sure, it's got more power than the //e, but >does the software take advantage of it? [...] Do *you* win when it >takes hours for P16 to load? Do you win when your GS takes five >hours to redraw the screen? No. You're exaggerating...it never takes more than 4 hours and 52 minutes for my IIgs to redraw the screen, and never more than 29 minutes to boot P16 [ :-) ]. >The software (well, some does, but not a lot) doesn't really show off >the hardware, it exposes it. That's not what good software is >supposed to do! Have patience! Well, have a LOT of patience. There is a growing amount of decent software for the GS (I know, because I've been growing some of it right here on my hard drive...). Apple is also continuing to improve the performance of the system software, which will help a lot. >Sean Kamath > >UUCP: {decvax allegra ucbcad ucbvax hplabs ihnp4}!tektronix!reed!kamath >CSNET: reed!kamath@Tektronix.CSNET || BITNET: reed!kamath@PSUVAX1.BITNET >ARPA: reed!kamath@PSUVAX1.CS.PSU.EDU >US Snail: 3934 SE Boise, Portland, OR 97202-3126 (I hate 4 line .sigs!) --David A. Lyons a.k.a. DAL Systems PO Box 287 | North Liberty, IA 52317 BITNET: AWCTTYPA@UIAMVS CompuServe: 72177,3233 GEnie mail: D.LYONS2