Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!ames!mailrus!husc6!cmcl2!lanl!unm-la!unmvax!charon!cscbrkac
From: cscbrkac@charon.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: The death of USENET
Summary: long but little flame content in my opinion (for what that's worth :-)
Message-ID: <3182@charon.unm.edu>
Date: 14 Jun 88 06:41:38 GMT
Reply-To: cscbrkac@unmc.UUCP (Lazlo Nibble)
Organization: Studio Nibble -- One Tree Hill, New Mexico
Lines: 68

> AT&T's decision to withdraw from Usenet participation is unfortunate
> but not a "death blow" to the net. I believe the net still fulfills
> it's main purpose (dissemination of information), and will continue to
> do so as long as it is kept UNIX oriented.
>
> The net should never have been turned into a "bbs" and when the ax
> falls on {rec,soc,talk} _the sooner the better_ .. My apologies to
> those who think otherwise, but professional concerns should take
> precedence.

If your site feels that the {rec,soc,talk} groups are not appropriate for it,
then by all means, your site should feel free to not carry them.  What I (and
presumably others) would object to is the *forced* removal of these groups
across the entire net in one fell swoop.

The problem is not that the non-comp groups (or non-UNIX groups, for the
ultra-purists out there) are "wasting space," it is that there are sysadmins
out there who are unwilling to take any actions on their own; sysadmins who for
some reason feel they HAVE to carry all the "official" groups on Spaf's list,
and who are not willing to drop a group or class of groups unless the entire
net drops it.

The whole purpose of "the great re-naming" was to make decisions about what to
carry and what not to carry easier to make and implement, yet scores of
sysadmins choose to ignore this system.  By this measure, the change from
{net,mod} to {comp,rec,soc,talk...} was a waste of time...the very people the
changeover was designed to help are pretending it doesn't exist!  There is a
vocal subclass of sysadmins on the net who constantly complain about all the
difficulties involved in carrying {rec,soc,talk...} but who, even with the
tools at their fingertips to solve the problem, would rather have The Backbone
come riding in on a white horse and make their decisions for them.

I am growing increasingly tired of such people, who haven't got the initiative
to take a few simple steps on their own.

If some of you want the ax dropped on {rec,soc,talk}, or the binaries groups,
or whatever groups you feel are "inappropriate", *then do your part by not
carrying them on your machines.*  If sites downstream really want the groups
they will find another way to get them, and will probably even be understanding
of your decision if you let them know a resonable time in advance, explain why,
and maybe even give them a hand finding another feed.  But crying to the net as
a whole and asking (or worse, DEMANDING) that the "offending" groups be taken
away from ALL of us is asshole behavior, pure and simple.  There are plenty of
sites out there that are still willing to carry a full feed...if enough sites
decide not to carry {soc.foo} then {soc.foo} will die a natural death, and
deservedly so, but dynamiting all but the technical groups and forcing those of
us who want the rest of them to rebuild them from scratch would be an amazing
abuse of power on the part of the backbone.

The net is a community.  I assume you also *live* in a community.  Do you
complain to your city government about the type of people who you invite to
your parties?  Do you expect your neighborhood association to keep the kinds of
people *you personally don't like associating with* from associating with
others in your neighborhood?  No?  Then why do you expect the net as a whole to
remove the groups that *you personally* don't want to carry?

The decision is *yours*.  Don't expect the rest of the world to make it for
you.

> Just my opinion, so please treat it as such.. I have no illusions as to
> what weight it carries.. Flames are stupid and waste spool space.
>
> --
> Len Rose - NetSys,Inc. 301-520-5677

Ditto.

-- 
Lazlo Nibble (cscbrkac@charon.unm.edu)