Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!bloom-beacon!mit-eddie!rutgers!ucsd!ucbvax!hplabs!pyramid!comdesign!pst
From: pst@comdesign.uucp (Paul Traina)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: looking for cheating detectors
Message-ID: <411@comdesign.UUCP>
Date: 23 Jul 88 20:45:32 GMT
References: <4513@medusa.cs.purdue.edu>
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies, Santa Barbara
Lines: 49

From article <4513@medusa.cs.purdue.edu>, by narten@cs.purdue.EDU (Thomas Narten):
- In article  <405@comdesign.UUCP> pst@comdesign.uucp (Paul Traina) writes:
->*Commentary*	Let them cheat.  If they're smart & learn, it's no big
->		deal.  If they're stupid, they'll blow their final and
->		they won't do well in courses that build upon the
->		material presented in your course.
- 
- Cheating is a matter of ethics; it is a "big deal".

My response might not belong here (depending upon your definition of comp.edu)
so I'll just request followups go directly to me.

Hmmm, maybe I have become too cynical,  but if student's haven't learned
ethics by the time they're in a University,  what's the point?

One could cop-out and say "I'm here to teach computer science, not ethics!"
or one could say "I'm here to teach students."  Personally, I have a lot
more respect for the person who say statement #2.  However, it's oh so hard
to live up to that standard.  Is one to become a police-officer as well as a
teacher?  I couldn't deal with that.

If I saw two people blatantly cheating on an assignment,  I'd pull both of them
in, and explain that they aren't going to learn a damned thing about computer
science or engineering if they can't think for themselves.  Then I'd consider
flunking them (on that assignment),  not so much for the ethical reasons, as
because one of them was stupid enough to not even think about what s/he
was doing--that they didn't put in any effort at all.

If I saw two people who used the same concepts and ideas,  but with different
approaches to the problem,  I would think to myself:
	"They probably talked to each other about how they would do
	 this program.  One or both got advise from the other, and
	 settled down to write the program."

I'd be happy to see this.  This is the way the real world works.  Now that
I'm out in it,  when I have a problem or want to hash over an idea, what
do I do?  I go talk to my office-mate, or walk down the hall to ask advise
from a fellow programmer.

So, you have on one side "I'm not here to teach ethics" and on the other
side "I'm here to teach them how to think like engineers."  You have
to decide for yourself the dividing line between "sharing" and "stealing."


-- 
Paul Traina	- {uunet|pyramid}!comdesign!pst - comdesign!pst@pyramid.com

To believe that what is true for you in your private heart is true for all
men,  that is genius.