Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!cmcl2!phri!cooper!dasys1!alexis
From: alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Fourth Dimension, is it any good? - Yes! (No!)
Message-ID: <5768@dasys1.UUCP>
Date: 27 Jul 88 10:51:59 GMT
References: <5725@dasys1.UUCP> <61371@sun.uucp>
Reply-To: alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen)
Lines: 82

In article <61371@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>>However, it would not be so difficult to do (Chuq says otherwise, but he may
>>have forgotten that the new TextEdit will handle most of that automagically).
>
>No, I didn't forget. But to build in the new TextEdit means deciding to
>remove compatiblity from all the folks who haven't upgraded yet. I'm sure
>it'll happen down the road, but is it worth cutting off a large part of teh
>market for a feature that's of marginal interest?

You are absolutely correct. As I said, it's just not worth it now. I am not
sure about the people who haven't upgraded, though. For all that we hear about
system incompatibilities, most people who upgrade don't find major problems.
It's not unreasonable to demand that your customers run a recent System,
especially for a high-end product like 4D.

>>{Mini-flame}
>>It is now 
>>a year later and they have fixed ONE bug. There have been no serious upgrades. 
>
>I've gotten a bunch of upgrades, including multiple copies of V1.0.6.

Right. But I said, "serious upgrade." That implies changes in functionality,
better speed, support for new system features, or SOMETHING nice. What did
they fix in V1.0.4? Four Bugs. Three MINOR bugs and one _really nasty_ bug
in the file-repair utility that they should have nailed long ago.

What did V1.0.6 fix? Incompatibility with System 6.0. Certain other databases
were not only compatible with 6.0, but were able to use features like the
Notification Manager long before System 6.0 actually shipped. Why did they
take so long to announce 1.0.6? They could have had it ready a week _before_
6.0 arrived. I wouldn't be so annoyed if they were improving the product in
any way, but they are just so lazy!

>>The V1.0.4 upgrade form I sent in three months ago vanished into some pit at 
>>Acius, so I have yet to see even that feeble revision.
>
>Why are you bitching about it here? It amy not even be Acius' fault, you
>know. Occasionally, the Post Office has been known to eat mail. If you
>didn't get it, why didn't you call Acius and ask about it instead of doing
>nothing about it except getting pissed at them?

I'm too busy to fill out more of their damn forms. As a beta site, the most
I should have had to do was call and ask for it. Instead, I have to wait two
weeks for the upgrade request form, mail it in, prove I own a copy (they lost
the ownership records for early purchasers)... And then they lose my upgrade?
Forget it. I just copied someone else's upgrade.

>It sounds to me like your looking for reasons to hate 4D. 

Nah... I've got more of those than I know what to do with:
Alexis's Top Ten Reasons To Hate 4D (if D. Letterman can do it, why not I?)
1) S L O W speed. Pathetically slow, everywhere.
2) Keeps all logical files in one physical file (can't distribute over net)
3) Report Footers cover up detail lines. This is a really nasty bug.
4) Modality. Why can't I have code and data on screen at the same time???
5) Screen refresh bugs. Lots of them.
6) Lousy reports. Needs too much code. Headers, detail, footers each have a
    constant, unchangeable length.
7) No run-time indexing. In fact, no programmable modification of the database
    structure at all. No permanent sorts.
8) Fragile language. Many reasonable-seeming things are arbitrarily forbidden,
    like deleteing from an included layout, or modifying the selection in
    'Modify Selection'
9) No multiple active windows under program control. Other arbitrary
    restrictions.
10) Poor control with atomic data-entry commands.
... plus about a hundred more that didn't make the list today.

It is true that there are a few good things about 4D, and a few applications
for which it is quite good (but other products are quickly catching up).
However, I'm so disgusted with the product that I'll leave the job of praising
it to other people...

>-- 
>Chuq Von Rospach			chuq@sun.COM		Delphi: CHUQ

----
Alexis Rosen                       {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\
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