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From: mag1@whutt.UUCP (GIDEN)
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal,soc.women
Subject: Re: Proposed lawsuit
Summary: Slander? Libel? No way!
Message-ID: <3642@whutt.UUCP>
Date: 26 Jul 88 19:09:42 GMT
References: <12165@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> <6278@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <9722@eddie.MIT.EDU>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 47


You cannot slander/libel someone by speaking the truth!  If you call a
person who is biologically a female she, you are making a truthful
statement.  Mark has every right (moral NOT LEGAL) to ask that people
call Mark he.  But, under the first amendment, you can call Mark
anything you please as long as what you call Mark is not slanderous/
libelous as the case may be.  (For those of you who are wondering,
slander is spoken and libel is printed falsehoods that hurt
someone per the LEGAL definition of hurt).
This doesn't mean that Mark has to like what you say to be protected
speech.  But if it is TRUE, there is no recourse!  If I go around
telling everyone that you are a convicted child molester and you are,
you have no legal recourse as I made a true statement of fact.  If I
said it and you weren't you would have a cause of action against me as
I slandered you.  Thus, calling Mark she, IF this is true, is legal.
Even if it weren't, it would not meet the test of slander or libel
under the law.  

As to discrimination, let me say that I think ALL discrimination is
wrong. Period.  Also, that what is illegal and what is really done is
often two different things.  I know this second hand as my wife is
(and has been from birth) profoundly hearing impaired.  There are
ainti-discrimination laws but...

Any how, if people don't respect Mark's wishes as to gender identification,
they may be guilty of being rude, but NOT of violating a law.  They are
exercising their rights under the first amendment.  EEO/AA applies to
employment, housing, schooling and being served in public accomodations
such as resturants.  If a person does not have a relationship with you, i.e.,
employer/employee, server/customer, realtor/renter then they are not
discriminating UNDER THE LAW.  Being rude maybe, but rudeness is NOT
ACTIONABLE IN A COURT OF LAW IN THIS COUNTRY!  If it were, look out
counter clerks, government workers, drivers et al! 

As we used to say as kids, Sticks and stones may break my bones but
names will never hurt me.  Mark, you are not going to change
anyone's opinion nor how they treat you by threatening to sue or
by going ahead with a filing.  As my wife would tell you, there
are a lot more serious issues that face handicapped people than
being referred to as he or she.  Isn't it time to talk about
REAL violations of REAL rights?

Mike Giden
AT&T Bell Labs
Whippany, NJ
An equal opportunity employer and proud of it.  These opinions are mine
alone.