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From: gordonl@microsoft.UUCP (Gordon Letwin)
Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.misc,sci.research
Subject: Re: Strange results in Nature article
Summary: Checkout them midgets!
Keywords: homeopathy
Message-ID: <1666@microsoft.UUCP>
Date: 1 Aug 88 19:07:38 GMT
References: <10465@lll-winken.llnl.gov> <20850@beta.lanl.gov> <2444@cxsea.UUCP> <5826@dasys1.UUCP>
Organization: Microsoft, Inc., Redmond, Washington
Lines: 69


  In article <5826@dasys1.UUCP>, tneff@dasys1.UUCP (Tom Neff) writes:

  > But sending Randi was an insult.  The man is a macrophage.  He makes
  > his living from charlatanism as surely as Madame Zolana and her
  > palmistry shop down the street.  Madame Z produces it, Randi debunks
  > it.  It's a neat ecology.  

Randi doesn't receive much, if any, income from debunking.  He's a professional
magician and earns his keep that way.  

  > Beneviste is not claiming to
  > be able to bend spoons for crissake, he's claiming to be able to dilute
  > an antibody astronomically but still detect activity via a special
  > staining technique.  What's Randi's job, to look for an Algerian midget
  > under the lab table?  Maybe a trick microscope?  Disappearing ink in
  > the notebooks, perhaps.

Beneviste is claiming a result "impossible" under the existing view of
reality, a result caused by something which would have dramatic impact
on a great deal of science.  This is equivalent to spoon bending.  The
only difference is that Geller claims to be causing the spoon bending
whereas Beneviste doesn't claim to be personally causing his result.
Geller says that it's Mind Power, Beneviste says that its "unknown".

An article I recently read explained why this result gets so much attention
wheras a proposal of a 5th fundimental force hasn't generated a visit from
Randi.  The "5th force" proposal is an enhancement to current theory,
something that if true can enhance and extend stuff that's today considered
"well proven".  Whereas Beneviste's result contradicts, or at least invalidates,
most biological and organic chemistry results that have been obtained since
the fields began.  (Toss out ALL those results because the experimenters
didn't control the previous uses of their water!  ANd because dilution
can *strengthen* the effect of a substance!)

When someone proposes an enhancment, it may or may not be true, but most
people take it calmly.  But when someone says, "Electricity doesn't work"
or "magic does work", then *that* generates a large interest, and
attempting to prove it's not so is the best way to go.  Note that I didn't
say "denying it's true", I said "proving it's not true".  When the one-in-
ten thousandth case comes up where it *is* true, those debunking attempts
will fail.  Sure, the poor discoverer gets hassled for a few years.  But
his Nobel prize will make up for it.  Much better than opening the
floodgates to the endless crazy ideas that folks, misguided or fraudulent,
propose.

And as for Randi's job, you betcha he was looking under tables for
Algerian midgets.  And not disappearing ink in notebooks, but for alterations.
Remember, Beneviste might not be the trickster himself; there have been
many cases where legitimate scientists were fooled by associates,
employees, subjects, etc.  In fact, Randi's role in these things is usually
as an aid to the experimenter to keep the subject(s) from cheating.
I recall a relatively recent case of a girl who claimed ESP which was
expressed through card tricks (forget the details).  She impressed a lot
of "scientists", but with Randi, an expert on card tricks, controlling
the protocol she couldn't perform anymore.  (Well, just once she managed
to perform.  They had an "official" camera and a hidden one.  They
conspiciously turned off the official camera and left the room for
coffee after she'd failed a series of trials.  When they went back in,
she suddenly succeeded a trial!  Of course, the hidden camera showed
her cheating.

  > -- 
  > Tom Neff			UUCP: ...!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!tneff
  > 	"None of your toys	CIS: 76556,2536	       MCI: TNEFF
  > 	 will function..."	GEnie: TOMNEFF	       BIX: t.neff (no kidding)
  
Gordon Letwin
Microsoft