Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!ames!killer!bigtex!james
From: james@bigtex.uucp (James Van Artsdalen)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.uucp
Subject: The UUCP Project - Should it exist?
Summary: And just where does the money go?
Message-ID: <6858@bigtex.uucp>
Date: 24 Aug 88 22:54:01 GMT
References: <935@cbnews.ATT.COM>
Organization: F.B.N. Software, Austin TX
Lines: 123

I have a number of problems with the blatant and unnecessary
commercialization of uucp domains by the UUCP Project.  This
commercialization is unnecessary and detrimental to usenet and the
desirable goal of domainization.  I argue that we would all be better
off if the UUCP Project would fold up shop and go away as a pay
service.  People have been beating around the bush for too long on
this.

	The uucp maps are too big.  The u. files should be removed in
	favor of d. files, which will be strictly registered sites.

This is an irrational idea.  If the UUCP Project charges its customers
to be listed, comp.mail.uucp becomes a purely commercial venture by
the UUCP Project.  No such commercialism has been permitted on usenet
in the past.  Indeed, rules on the Internet would seem to forbid nntp
on this newsgroup precisely because it would be solely a commercial
venture, to the real benefit of the paying customers only.

My assumption is that most people are just ignoring this proposal as
utter nonsense, knowing it can never happen.  If any serious attempt
to remove u. files was made, I except alt.maps would pop into creation
and comp.mail.uucp would gradually fade away as fewer sites carried
it.  Clearly something should be done about the maps, but this idea
won't work.  At best, it would replace current problems with the u.
files with the SAME problems in d. files - no net improvement at all.

	Domain names are better than simple uucp names for mail, and
	we need an organization to encourage this.

Well, I won't argue with this.  There are still MX-ignorant Internet
sites out there and people running the old V7 unix mailers (still with
us in SysV), but they will upgrade as their mail gradually ceases to
work.

But no argument that suggests that domains are a good thing requires
that an exclusive, for-profit service like the UUCP Project needs to
exist (I say exclusive because it does not deal with organizations
that cannot get funding for this sort of thing - for-profit is dealt
with below).  Similarly, I cannot agree that it would not be
impossible for a non-profit group to serve the same function.  Within
the confines of the current map distribution system, the *volunteer*
map coordinators do a good job with the u.* files.  How is it that the
UUCP Project cannot do the easier job with the d.* files without being
paid?  There are fewer sites in the d.* files: it IS an easier job.
Is volunteerism dead in usenet, or just the UUCP Project?

	The UUCP Project is non-profit and it encourages domainization
	of uucp-only sites.

The question of where the money goes will probably never be adequately
answered.  The UUCP Project does not pay the NIC and does not pay the
Internet site that acts as forwarder and nameserver.  They incur no
necessary hard costs that I am aware of.  Soft costs such as keeping
records and sending test mail once a year do not cost $150.  The UUCP
Project also wants money on a per-site basis for sites under its
customer's domain.  Why?  Any extra money they receive from customer
domains with many hosts is pure profit, representing no additional
cost.  Without some reasonably detailed explanation of where $150
goes, I cannot help but conclude that it isn't justified by the hard
costs and does constitute some form of "profit" by usenet standards.
It certainly qualifies as a commercial service.

How does the UUCP Project encourage domainization?  I do not think it
does.  A major problem is the large number of leaf sites and small PCs
running unix or Xenix.  These sites are generally not going to pay
$150 without a tangible benefit, and there are other sites that cannot
get funding for subscription services of this sort.  The fee
discourages precisely these sites from registering for a domain name.
Removing the u. files so that these people will have a tangible
benefit to pay $150 seems completely outrageous: I don't think anyone
will put up with it.

Getting a domain can be done if you have a cooperative Internet site.
It cannot really be done without an Internet site.  The UUCP Project
cannot solve this inherent problem, and does not attempt to do so
insofar as I can see.  Exactly what *does* the Project do?  If they
simply handed out NIC registration forms, I suspect their customers
could handle it all for themselves with the cooperation of the
Internet site the customer is going to have to deal with anyway.  The
main reason bigtex is not currently in any domain is that the
information on how to get a domain has not been widely available:
everyone seems willing to put you under their control but not so
excited about giving out the information on how to contact the NIC and
the toplevel ".org" servers and such.

	If something is broke, it's our responsibility to track it down
	and have it fixed.

This quote from Tim Thompson makes no sense to me, as there's nothing
Tim can do if my forwarder breaks.  If the Internet administrator
won't fix it for me, he won't fix it for Tim.  What kind of warranty
are they placing on their services?  If they don't control the
"something", how do they fix it?  "I'm from the UUCP Project, and your
sendmail.cf is broken" isn't something I can't do myself...  --- I
suggest that a *volunteer* group whose purpose is to disseminate
information would be more valuable that the UUCP Project.  Rather than
simply suggest "Send $xxx to us and we'll tell you what to do", this
group could maintain lists of known cooperative Internet hosts and
existing domains that sites could join.  The group could hand out
information on how to interact with the NIC and how to find Internet
forwarders.  Basically, it would work just as the uucp maps work now -
new sites are encouraged, but not strictly required, to register in
the uucp maps.  Since there is no cost, most do so.  Such a group
would also avoid the suspicions that the UUCP Project has caused, and
would avoid the important commercialization problems.  Some of this is
already done on an informal basis, and I see .US as a step in the
right direction, though I don't care for their central authority model
or the fact that they permit domain names but not domains.

I'm sure the UUCP Project people see themselves as volunteering
immense amounts of effort for a pitiful return, and probably will not
be pleased with me.  But the fact is that there are just too many
unanswered questions, and too many rumors flying about.  I expect that
some of my conclusions above are based on incorrect information - I
don't know anything about how Internet domains work administratively.
But these concerns need to be answered, not avoided.  Heretofore I've
seen only vague claims that paperwork is handled, and things are
arranged, and that somehow it all costs money.  I would like to hear
why the volunteer effort doesn't work, and why the UUCP Project really
does solve problems that cannot otherwise be solved via the
traditional usenet volunteer effort.
-- 
James R. Van Artsdalen    ...!uunet!utastro!bigtex!james     "Live Free or Die"
Home: 512-346-2444 Work: 328-0282; 110 Wild Basin Rd. Ste #230, Austin TX 78746