Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!killer!tness7!petro!swrinde!dpmizar!com50!com2serv!com2sun!ahby
From: ahby@com2sun.ETA.COM (Shane P. McCarron)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.uucp
Subject: Re: The UUCP Project - Should it exist?
Message-ID: <115@com2serv.C2S.MN.ORG>
Date: 26 Aug 88 15:23:10 GMT
References: <935@cbnews.ATT.COM> <6858@bigtex.uucp> <1031@fig.bbn.com> <2423@epimass.EPI.COM>
Sender: usenet@com2serv.C2S.MN.ORG
Reply-To: ahby@bungia.mn.org (Shane P. McCarron)
Organization: ComSquared Systems, St. Paul, MN
Lines: 70

In article <2423@epimass.EPI.COM> jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) writes:
>In article <1031@fig.bbn.com> rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes:
>>Have you been charged, yet, a fee you consider unreasonable?
>
>Yes.  I was recently billed $150 for the second year of the .epi.com
>domain.

Yes.  I was also billed for another year, but since I had discovered
some time before that that the UUCP Project incurred no on-going (or
even initial) expenses on my behalf, I ignored it!

>How do you answer your accounting department when they ask the
>question, "What are the consequences if we don't make this payment?"
>(for renewal payments, not the first payment).

I thought about this, and have determined that there are no
consequences.  The maps are really coordinated by the regional
coordinators.  I know that there is some sort of "central authority",
but this group is only as good as the people "under" it think it is.
I would assume that the coordinators will do what logic dictates.  For
example, if your regions central site refuses to pay their fee, and
the Project people say "throw the bums out - theya re not paying", the
coordinator is going to say "Look, this site is vital to my region,
and if I drop them every thing will break.  Forget it!"

[[He then goes on to make many excellent points]]

>5.  I've never seen any justification for the UUCP Project's expenses.
>The only things I can think of that would make a dent in that kind of
>money are:
>
>      a) Their own computer: totally unnecessary, if you need disk
>      space ask for room on uunet, which stores the maps in
>      downloadable form anyway,

They have a machine, stargate.  I get the impression it is something
small that is at Mark's house.  I could be wrong.

>      b) Paid staff: again unnecessary; if the load is too tough on
>      the current crew ask for more volunteers (I'd be willing to pitch
>      in),

As would I and a number of other people.  The volunteer system is what
this entire project is based upon anyway!  The "central authority"
does very little actual work, as far as I can tell.

>      c) Travel expenses: this would be a real outrage if we're paying
>      for this.

Heh...  I heard a rumor (this is certainly libelous) that they were
using the money to go to Usenix conferences :-)  Not true of course,
but humorous, none the less.

>A one-time fee for the service of setting up the domain is perfectly
>appropriate.  Continuing fees are NOT.

I agree, but would also like to point out that there are plenty of
people who are willing to do what they UUCP Project does FOR FREE.
There are people who consider it their duty(?) to help out fellow
members of this community in small ways that do not cost them much in
time or materials.  This is the "spirit of the net", and I applaud it
whole-heartedly.

>In conclusion, I'll recommend that my company not pay any more $150
>fees unless I can get a very strong justification why we should, and
>I'll fight any attempt at coercion.

Well said!  We are, after all, fighting for the users :-)
Shane P. McCarron			ATT:	+1 612 452-9522
Project Manager				UUCP:	ahby@c2s.mn.org