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From: casey@admin.cognet.ucla.edu (Casey Leedom)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: xinit lacks init in it (FLAME!)
Keywords: X, novice users, startup (learning) curve, ease of configuration
Message-ID: <15718@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 2 Sep 88 14:08:24 GMT
References: <641@kaon.uchicago.edu> <8808311656.AA07475@EXPO.LCS.MIT.EDU> <4479@mtgzz.att.com>
Sender: news@CS.UCLA.EDU
Reply-To: casey@cs.ucla.edu (Casey Leedom)
Organization: UCLA
Lines: 45

In article <4479@mtgzz.att.com> avr@mtgzz.att.com (a.v.reed) writes:
>  I use the following aliases in my $ENV:
> 	[a couple of small aliases]
>  My $HOME/.xrun contains the following:
> 	[a complicated shell script]
> 
> This works perfectly, giving me exactly the server and clients I put in
> it. I can change it with my usual text editor. I don't need to learn any
> special initialization file formats. And anyone who knows sh can take
> take my .xrun, read it, understand it, and customize it for their own
> use.
> 
> > Xinit is a lot like "ed".  It's works, and it's there; but, most people
> > only use it under duress, when nothing "better" is available. 
> 
> Correction: most people use it only because they don't understand
> UNIX, which has to do with knowing what tools are available,
> and using the right tool for the job.

  I think you miss the point.  We're talking about two things here: 1.
the start up cost or learning curve associated with starting to use X,
and 2. the ongoing cost for maintaining and expanding your environment.
You only address the second point, and very crudely at that.  I find the
SunTools method far more satisfactory even for an experienced user:

	% toolplaces >.suntools

which effectively takes a snapshot of your current screen by outputting
the shell command lines that it would take to recreate the set of current
windows in their current positions, etc.  [I should point out at this
point that X has something like this, xplaces.  A better version is now
available from Mark Moraes (<moraes%csri.toronto.edu@RELAY.CS.NET>) who
took the original plus a version he'd put together which supported
geometry.  I just received a note from him saying he'd contributed the
new version to MIT.]

  As for start up cost, your method is a hopeless mire for the novice
user who basically just wants to be able to type ``go'' and get something
reasonable.  And even for the experienced computer user, coming upon that
script for the first time is going to be uncomfortable.

  All we're talking about doing here is making our interface for using X
a little more friendly.

Casey