Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!steinmetz!davidsen From: davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d Subject: Re: SIMTEL20 to ban ARC files Message-ID: <12094@steinmetz.ge.com> Date: 8 Sep 88 17:40:10 GMT References: Reply-To: davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) Organization: General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY Lines: 109 There has been a lot of stuff posted about changing from arc to another format, including the following execpts. I feel very strongly that if people want to get off of ARC they should consider going to an established standard, like zoo. To jump from one proprietary standard to another is really bad from a technology standpoint, and to announce that you will do so before the product exists seems totally irrational. If PK releases a new format, and it's slow, buggy, and produces larger files than ARC(tm) would you go to it anyway? Or would you want to say "I made a bad statement, and I'm not going to do it?" If PK decides to *require* payment and set it at $100, are you still going to do it? Is PK going to allow anyone to use his algorithms and file format, or lock them down, which you found so unpalitable from SEA? Rahul has never claimed any control over his file format, and even has a more or less document, which I'm trying to use to write some utilities to compliment zoo. I'll go on record, too, with a rash statement about the new format: I will evaluate the new compressor when and if it comes out, on the basis of speed, compression, and user acceptance. I will leave social issues out of technical decisions, and only change if the new method is better than what I use now. Technical issue: I have tried a quick and dirty grafting of splay tree compression to my old FastArch program (remember that one, old people) and found that it is slower than zoo by at least 20%. I'm sure that you could do better in assembler, if you don't mind a week or two of porting for each machine, and taking the chance that the person doing the port didn't mess it up so it won't unpack. These are some examples of the "blind faith" acceptance of the new standard file compressor: From: W8SDZ@SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL (Keith Petersen) Subject: Exec-PC BBS to ban ARC files Date: 7 Sep 88 21:05:00 GMT [Exec-PC BBS is one of the largest MS/PCDOS-oriented systems in the country] ----- A STATEMENT FROM THE EXEC-PC BBS CONCERNING THE RECENT SEA VS PKWARE SUIT [ ... ] Exec-PC has decided the following: As soon as PKware brings out a new format for creating crunched/squeezed/squashed/packed/tramped collections of files, that new format will be used for ALL files on the Exec-PC BBS. At last count Exec-PC had more than 16,000 files online in the arc format. Many sysops are nervous about the amount of work required to convert to a new format. I don't understand what the problem is. A simple batch file can be created for unarcing all the old files, then rePAKing them into the new format. How about terrified? Forget the people work, on an AT class machine figure about 900-1500 bytes/sec to unarc and repack, based on the *uncompressed* size of the files. Add about 1.5 sec/file to create and delete directory entries, etc, and then look at how much stuff you have. The answer comes in days. Do I want to take my system down for days? Do I want to do the conversion in the background and take weeks? To go to a format which 95% of my users don't have? I have always let the users vote with their modems. If people upload in arc format, or pkarc, or zoo or dwc, and if they download in those formats, they're telling me something. ================================================================ From: W8SDZ@SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL (Keith Petersen) Subject: SIMTEL20 to ban ARC files Date: 7 Sep 88 22:16:00 GMT SIMTEL20 today announced that it will soon be banning all ARC files from its archives. We have contacted Phil Katz and asked to make arrangements for anything he develops in whatever new format in C source so that it can ported to our TOPS-20 operating system. Then, as time permits, it is our intent to convert *everything* on SIMTEL20 from ARC to that new format, including the PC/BLUE files. I make the same comment... are the archives there to serve the users or as a political statement? I assume that having the archives available is a public service. Would your conversion include changing the volume documentation to use the pnf (Phil's new format) extension? How about the program documentation? ================================================================ I don't want anyone to think I have anything against PK (or SEA), simply that I see a lot of decisions being made about adopting new standards which haven't been published, running new software for which the design spec isn't even available, and all predicated on the assumption that this will somehow attain some social goals. I freely admit that I like zoo, and that if I were changing I would go to zoo as a proven non-shareware standard. Most of the UNIX programs on my bbs are in zoo format, except for the zoo source itself. I would accept another format if it were clearly needed or wanted, but only on technical grounds. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me