Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!cornell!uw-beaver!teknowledge-vaxc!sri-unix!quintus!ok From: ok@quintus.uucp (Richard A. O'Keefe) Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc Subject: Re: Many people's opinions on computer languages Message-ID: <407@quintus.UUCP> Date: 15 Sep 88 07:42:54 GMT References: <3938@enea.se> <923@l.cc.purdue.edu> <382@quintus.UUCP> <402@quintus.UUCP> <1413@garth.UUCP> Sender: news@quintus.UUCP Reply-To: ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) Organization: Quintus Computer Systems, Inc. Lines: 39 In article <1413@garth.UUCP> smryan@garth.UUCP (Steven Ryan) writes: >>Summary of Montgomery's message: 64-bit integer operations, and find first >>bit. Summary of my reply: PL/I can express them. >My complaint of PL/I is that is does TOO much--everything's there, but you >aren't sure what you're getting. >F'r instance, decimal fixpoint arithmetic is nice if the cpu has decimal >instructions, but not so nice if it's a binary-only machine. I really don't want to be mistaken for a friend of PL/I. I think its implicit conversions are a menace to shipping. As for DECIMAL FIXED arithmetic, since the topic was "HLL designers are ratbags who won't give me access to all the instructions", it should be pointed out in PL/I's favour that if the machine _has_ got some decimal support (as a 680x0, 80*86, VAX, PR1ME 500, /370, and so on, and several floating- point chips have) Rubin et al might want to get at it, and PL/I will let them. >>Could we have some discussion of why >> - PL/I BIT(N) and FIXED(P[,Q]) data types and the operations it provides >> are not adequate >> - ADA machine code inserts are not adequate >> - "inline" or V.3 asm functions are not adequate >> - what could be done to make them adequate > >Probably because this started out as gripes about C. Well, it _really_ started out as postings in comp.lang.c and comp.arch which attacked HLLs in general. It's not reasonable to require C to be everything to everyone. Now there's a lot in PL/I which I imagine Rubin has no particular need for (COMPLEX PICTUREd data, perhaps?). The question is whether he only needs the kind of operations that are good for multiprecision integer arithmetic (in which case we may look to PL/I for ideas about a language that would let him get on with it) or whether he needs access to whatever instructions there are (in which case we may look to ADA) or whether some entirely new ideas are needed. Just to get in first: an amalgam of PL/I and ADA would be _awful_.